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Offline 4DMYN

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #45 on: 22 July 2010, 12:13:54 AM »
[at] virya
According to the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Mahā-sūtra (also called the Nirvana Sutra), the Buddha taught that parinirvana is the realm of the Eternal, Bliss, the Self, and the Pure. Dr Paul Williams states that it refers to the Buddha using the term "Self" in order to win over non-Buddhist ascetics.[5] However, the Mahaparinirvana Sutra is a long and highly composite Mahayana scripture,[6] and the part of the sutra upon which Williams is basing his statement is a portion of the Nirvana Sutra of secondary Central Asian provenance - other parts of the sutra were written in India.[7]

Guang Xing speaks of how the Mahayanists of the Nirvana Sutra understand the mahaparinirvana to be the liberated Self of the eternal Buddha: ‘One of the main themes of the MMPS [Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra] is that the Buddha is eternal … The Mahayanists assert the eternity of the Buddha in two ways in the MMPS. They state that the Buddha is the dharmakaya, and hence eternal. Next, they reinterpret the liberation of the Buddha as mahaparinirvana possessing four attributes: eternity, happiness, self and purity.’[8] Only in Mahaparinirvana is this True Self held to be fully discernible and accessible[9].

Many Mahayana Buddhists do not take statements of this kind literally.[10]

Kosho Yamamoto cites a passage in which the Buddha admonishes his monks ('bhiksus') not to dwell inordinately on the idea of the non-Self but to meditate on the Self. Dr. Yamamoto writes:

‘Having dwelt upon the nature of nirvana, the Buddha now explains its positive aspect and says that nirvana has the four attributes of the Eternal, Bliss, the Self, and the Pure … the Buddha says: “O you bhiksus [monks]! Do not abide in the thought of the non-eternal, sorrow, non-Self, and the not-pure and have things as in the case of those people who take the stones, wooden pieces and gravel for the true gem [of the true Dharma] … In every situation, constantly meditate upon the idea of the Self, the idea of the Eternal, Bliss, and the Pure ... Those who, desirous of attaining Reality meditatatively cultivate these ideas, namely, the ideas of the Self [atman], the Eternal, Bliss, and the Pure, will skilfully bring forth the jewel, just like the wise person.” '[11]

Michael Zimmermann, in his study of the Tathagatagarbha Sutra, reveals that not only the Mahaparinirvana Sutra but also the Tathagatagarbha Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra speak affirmatively of the Self. Zimmermann observes:

    the existence of an eternal, imperishable self, that is, buddhahood, is definitely the basic point of the TGS [Tathagatagarbha Sutra] … the Mahaparinirvanasutra and the Lankavatarasutra characterize the tathagatagarbha explicitly as atman [Self].’[12]

While in early Buddhist thought nirvana is characterized by permanence, bliss, and purity, it is viewed as being the stopping of the breeding-ground for the "I am" attitude, and is beyond all possibility of the Self delusion.[13][14]

yang disebut itu namae Nirvana bukan Parinirvana
Nirvana dirasakan seorang Buddha dan Arahat pada masa hidup dan setelah kematian mereka tidak terlahir kembali alias back to zero.nothing not even a single trace of being. :) dan itu disebut Parinirvana
sudah jelas di artikel tersebut ditulis parinirvana, bukan nirvana, kenapa anda membelokkan fakta?

Offline Indra

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #46 on: 22 July 2010, 12:14:45 AM »
[at] virya
According to the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Mahā-sūtra (also called the Nirvana Sutra), the Buddha taught that parinirvana is the realm of the Eternal, Bliss, the Self, and the Pure. Dr Paul Williams states that it refers to the Buddha using the term "Self" in order to win over non-Buddhist ascetics.[5] However, the Mahaparinirvana Sutra is a long and highly composite Mahayana scripture,[6] and the part of the sutra upon which Williams is basing his statement is a portion of the Nirvana Sutra of secondary Central Asian provenance - other parts of the sutra were written in India.[7]

Guang Xing speaks of how the Mahayanists of the Nirvana Sutra understand the mahaparinirvana to be the liberated Self of the eternal Buddha: ‘One of the main themes of the MMPS [Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra] is that the Buddha is eternal … The Mahayanists assert the eternity of the Buddha in two ways in the MMPS. They state that the Buddha is the dharmakaya, and hence eternal. Next, they reinterpret the liberation of the Buddha as mahaparinirvana possessing four attributes: eternity, happiness, self and purity.’[8] Only in Mahaparinirvana is this True Self held to be fully discernible and accessible[9].

Many Mahayana Buddhists do not take statements of this kind literally.[10]

Kosho Yamamoto cites a passage in which the Buddha admonishes his monks ('bhiksus') not to dwell inordinately on the idea of the non-Self but to meditate on the Self. Dr. Yamamoto writes:

‘Having dwelt upon the nature of nirvana, the Buddha now explains its positive aspect and says that nirvana has the four attributes of the Eternal, Bliss, the Self, and the Pure … the Buddha says: “O you bhiksus [monks]! Do not abide in the thought of the non-eternal, sorrow, non-Self, and the not-pure and have things as in the case of those people who take the stones, wooden pieces and gravel for the true gem [of the true Dharma] … In every situation, constantly meditate upon the idea of the Self, the idea of the Eternal, Bliss, and the Pure ... Those who, desirous of attaining Reality meditatatively cultivate these ideas, namely, the ideas of the Self [atman], the Eternal, Bliss, and the Pure, will skilfully bring forth the jewel, just like the wise person.” '[11]

Michael Zimmermann, in his study of the Tathagatagarbha Sutra, reveals that not only the Mahaparinirvana Sutra but also the Tathagatagarbha Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra speak affirmatively of the Self. Zimmermann observes:

    the existence of an eternal, imperishable self, that is, buddhahood, is definitely the basic point of the TGS [Tathagatagarbha Sutra] … the Mahaparinirvanasutra and the Lankavatarasutra characterize the tathagatagarbha explicitly as atman [Self].’[12]

While in early Buddhist thought nirvana is characterized by permanence, bliss, and purity, it is viewed as being the stopping of the breeding-ground for the "I am" attitude, and is beyond all possibility of the Self delusion.[13][14]

Bro 4DMYN,
dalam memberikan referensi sebaiknya gunakan referensi yg valid yaitu hanya dari Tipitaka/Tripitaka bukan dari penafsiran pihak ke3, bisakah Bro menyebutkan di bagian mana dari Maha Parinirvana Sutra kutipan anda itu?

Offline Nevada

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #47 on: 22 July 2010, 12:15:54 AM »
^
^
Menurut gw .... gw gak tauu Buddha Aksobhya
jadi ceritakan sedikit riwayatnya .....

1hal belum loe jawab ......
apa artinya PariNibbana ?
[at] Bro Virya

Tidak bisa menggunakan definisi Parinibbana versi Theravada, Bro... Dalam Theravada, setelah Parinibbana maka pancakkhandha sudah padam. Buddha tidak akan ada di manapun juga. Sedangkan TBSN berbasiskan Tantrayana yang perlu merujuk pada Parinirvana versi Mahayana. Dalam Mahayana, setelah Buddha memasuki Parinirvana, Beliau masih bisa "keluar-masuk" samsara dengan leluasa. Selain itu, Buddha juga masih bisa bermanifestasi. Jadi dalam sudut pandang Mahayana-Tantrayana; sebenarnya klaim bahwa LSY mengopi dengan Buddha Gotama itu relevan dan mungkin bisa terjadi.

Offline Adhitthana

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #48 on: 22 July 2010, 12:19:43 AM »
ngomong-ngomong .... kopinya merk apa yaaaah  :hammer:

mungkin .... kopinya sama dengan yg diminum bro 4DMYN n bro pariahino  ;D

EGP .... aaaaakh (kagak ngerti, pucing)  ^-^
  Aku akan mengalami Usia tua, aku akan menderita penyakit, aku akan mengalami kematian. Segala yang ku Cintai, ku miliki, dan ku senangi akan Berubah dan terpisah dariku ....

Offline nyanadhana

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #49 on: 22 July 2010, 12:28:22 AM »
ngomong-ngomong .... kopinya merk apa yaaaah  :hammer:

mungkin .... kopinya sama dengan yg diminum bro 4DMYN n bro pariahino  ;D

EGP .... aaaaakh (kagak ngerti, pucing)  ^-^

kok kena virus johan saceng juga?

besok aye mau naik odong odong ama LSY.mau ikut?
Sadhana is nothing but where a disciplined one, the love, talks to one’s own soul. It is nothing but where one cleans his own mind.

Offline Adhitthana

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #50 on: 22 July 2010, 12:31:06 AM »
ngomong-ngomong .... kopinya merk apa yaaaah  :hammer:

mungkin .... kopinya sama dengan yg diminum bro 4DMYN n bro pariahino  ;D

EGP .... aaaaakh (kagak ngerti, pucing)  ^-^

kok kena virus johan saceng juga?

besok aye mau naik odong odong ama LSY.mau ikut?
boleee ....
sekalian mao minta cincin batu permata .... cukup 1 cincin aja   ;D
  Aku akan mengalami Usia tua, aku akan menderita penyakit, aku akan mengalami kematian. Segala yang ku Cintai, ku miliki, dan ku senangi akan Berubah dan terpisah dariku ....

Offline andry

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #51 on: 22 July 2010, 12:38:52 AM »
gimana mo ngerti? kalo masih memegang konsep, dan masih suka membanding2 kan?
kosongin dulu isi cangkirnya, baru bisa diisi air kopi...
Samma Vayama

Offline Adhitthana

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #52 on: 22 July 2010, 12:39:09 AM »
betulll ... kang Andry  ;D

Spoiler: ShowHide

Apakah Tessy juga ingin melakukan upacara?? .... cincinnya banyokk yoooo ;D
« Last Edit: 22 July 2010, 12:47:38 AM by Virya »
  Aku akan mengalami Usia tua, aku akan menderita penyakit, aku akan mengalami kematian. Segala yang ku Cintai, ku miliki, dan ku senangi akan Berubah dan terpisah dariku ....

Offline nyanadhana

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #53 on: 22 July 2010, 12:50:56 AM »
wakakakaka kalo itu Living Corpse hahaha
Sadhana is nothing but where a disciplined one, the love, talks to one’s own soul. It is nothing but where one cleans his own mind.

Offline wencie

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #54 on: 22 July 2010, 01:25:31 AM »
Maaf boleh nimbrung ya... sepertinya masih hangat...

Salam dari saya Wen Cie ...

Boleh ceritakan inti diskusinya ...
Apa aja sih yang negatif dari Lu sheng yen?
Tolong dong rangkumin ke saya...haha...Xie2 ni
Melatih kesabaran dan hati,Berbuat ,Berpikiran dan Berujar secara benar.akan menjadikan dharma indah setiap saatnya.

Offline wencie

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #55 on: 22 July 2010, 01:42:11 AM »
iya,saya sudah cukup jelas membacanya.... Saya kira semua pernyataan negatif ttg LSY sudah bisa dijawab. Namun mengapa pertanyaan tidak bermutu seperti apa merk kopi yang digunakan kenapa ditanyakan ya?
Mohon penjelasannya
Melatih kesabaran dan hati,Berbuat ,Berpikiran dan Berujar secara benar.akan menjadikan dharma indah setiap saatnya.

Offline Tai Ji Quan

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #56 on: 22 July 2010, 01:53:38 AM »
Ikutan ah... Menurut ajaran mahayana, seorang Buddha memiliki 3 tubuh istilahnya trikaya. Nah melalui Dhammakaya maka bs "berhubungan" dng makhluk suci. Agak sulit jg menarik benang merah ajaran mahayana jika dilihat dr kacamata theravada. Menurut mahayana org yg telah mencapai pencerahan artinya menyatu dengan alam semesta. Artinya alam semesta dan dirinya tiada beda. Tentu saja hal ini sulit dipahami kecuali kita mengalaminya. Satu hal yg bagi saya agak lucu ada yg bertanya definisi parinibbana. Sebenarnya parinibbana dan nibbana adalah hal yg sama. Bedanya kalo parinibbana unsur pendukung kehidupannya telah padam. Jadi apa itu nibbana? Jawab saya TIDAK TERCERITAKAN...

Offline johan3000

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #57 on: 22 July 2010, 06:08:48 AM »
wakakakaka kalo itu Living Corpse hahaha

Wahh bumbunya agak pedas bro nyadhana...
Tapi kalau mau dipikir ya brand imagenya bagus lho LSY....

contoh

1. Buddha (ini type standard)
2. Living Buddha
3. True Living Buddha
4. Absolutely True Living Buddha
5. Absolutely True Living Buddha with money Back Guarantee
6. Absolutely True Living Buddha with 100% money Back Guarantee

Nahhh bagus toh.... pabrik kecap aja harus salut pada yg diatas....

jadi trade mark dan brand image memang perlu sekali.....

utk no 3. dan seterusnya masih belum ada yg pakai... kalau ada yg berminat..
nah mohon komisinya utk gw ya... =))

Absolutely True Living Buddha with passive income (giman yg ini?)  :)) :))

jadi pemilihan nama ditinjau dari segi marketing LSY mendpt nilai bagus!
« Last Edit: 22 July 2010, 06:11:30 AM by johan3000 »
Nagasena : salah satu dari delapan penyebab matangnya kebijaksanaan dgn seringnya bertanya

Offline GandalfTheElder

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #58 on: 22 July 2010, 07:29:09 AM »
Quote
Selain itu, Buddha juga masih bisa bermanifestasi. Jadi dalam sudut pandang Mahayana-Tantrayana; sebenarnya klaim bahwa LSY mengopi dengan Buddha Gotama itu relevan dan mungkin bisa terjadi.

Saya kutip dari perkataan LSY sendiri:
If you trust me, I shall explain this to you clearly. The truth is actually quite simple. Though the Buddha had entered into Nirvana, his spiritual light spans the universe. This is similar to Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva who can answer a thousand prayers and appear simultaneously. The Buddha ranks higher than the Bodhisattva and thus can do likewise. I, Living Buddha Lian-sheng, Sheng-yen Lu have cultivated the spiritual light and I can certainly meet the Buddha and drink coffee with him in our spiritual light bodies. This is Soul meeting Soul, and is actually a very natural thing to do.`

I said, `Besides this, when a person passes away, his body may be destroyed but Soul remains. When another person dies, these two Souls can meet each other. I mean to say that the difference between life and death is simply one where a physical body exists, and one which it doesn`t. Life and death is thus one reality. In birth one refers to existence in the human world and in death one refers to existence in the netherworld.`

I continued, `I can cultivate to the level of Soul leaving the body, and as long as I stay concentrated, seated in yoga posture, circulate the Chi, channel, light drop, and light, and moves my Soul out of the body, I can enter the Dharma Realm and meet Shakyamuni Buddha himself!`


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nah itu dia. Kalau mau bisa minum kopi, Buddha harus mengemanasikan diri-Nya sebagai Nirmanakaya alias tubuh kasar seperti misalnya tubuh manusia!! Pertanyaannya, ketika LSY minum kopi dengan Sakyamuni Buddha, apa orang-orang sekitar bisa melihat Buddha duduk minum kopi??

Kalau saya baca sih, katanya Buddha minum kopi bersama-sama LSY dalam tubuh astral (mungkin maksudnya Sambhogakaya yah?) di kafetaria!! Nah Sambhogakaya dalam Vajrayana dikenal tidak memiliki tubuh kasar seperti makhluk hidup pada umumnya, Sambhogakaya adalah bagaikan pantulan bulan di atas permukaan air. Nah kalau sudah tahu begitu, mana bisa minum kopi yang berwujud kasar??

Yah kecuali kalau minum "kopi Dharma" di Tanah Murni Akanishta Gandavyuha itu masih memungkinkan. Nah ini masalahnya kenapa harus mengambil tempat di kafetaria duniawi yang berwujud fisik?? kalau mau "ngopi Dharma" di Tanah Murni Akanishta Gandavyuha, ya ga harus pergi ke kafetaria.

Tapi jelas-jelas LSY pergi ke kafetaria duniawi dan secara nggak langsung sudah menunjuk bahwa kopi yang diminimum Sambhogakaya adalah kopi dalam wujud fisik kasar. Ini yang saya pertanyakan.

Mingyur Rinpoche pernah menceriatakan suatu kisah pada saya. Ada seorang umat yang bervisualisasi Vajrasattva namun kemudian mengadu pada Rinpoche, "Aduh Rinpoche, saya tentu melakukan karma buruk yang sangat besar, karena ketika ada telepon saya bangkit dari meditasi dan Vajrasattva yang saya visualisasikan di atas kepala terjatuh terbentur pintu!!" Rinpoche menjelaskan bahwa itu karena sang umat masih menganggap Vajrasattva sebagai tubuh fisik kasar, padahal Vajrasattva itu seharusnya divisualisasikan sebagai shunyata, bulan terpantul di atas air karena memang demikian adanya.

Nah dalam kasus LSY ini, malah Sambhogakaya seola-olah digambarkan dalam wujud fisik kasar sehingga bisa minum kopi di KAFETARIA??

Lalu kalau itu memang Sambhogakaya (spiritual light bodies), bagaimana bisa LSY menyamakannya dengan "Soul"?? Kita semua tentu punya "Soul" atau kesadaran, tetapi kita tidak memiliki Sambhogakaya bila belum mencapai pencerahan. Jika Soul dan Sambhogakaya tidak sama, mengapa LSY menggunakan istilah Soul secara awam untuk mendeskripsikan Sambhogakaya?? Sekilas malah terlihat sebagai paham Atman!! Hmmmmmm.....

 _/\_
The Siddha Wanderer
« Last Edit: 22 July 2010, 07:33:40 AM by GandalfTheElder »
Theravada is my root. This is the body of my practice.... It [Tibetan Buddhism]has given me my Compassion practice. Vajrayana is my thunder, my power. This is the heart of my practice..True wisdom is simple and full of lightness and humor. Zen is my no-self (??). This is the soul of my practice.

Offline GandalfTheElder

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Re: Seputar master LU (LSY) & Living Buddha & True Buddha School.
« Reply #59 on: 22 July 2010, 08:02:08 AM »
Quote
di jaman Sang Buddha, Vimalakirti juga bisa bertemu dan ngobrol dengan Buddha Aksobhya. Apa ada yang salah dengan kejadian ngopi bareng?

Bisa diberikan kutipan sutranya yang menyatakan Vimalakirti lagi ngobrol dengan Aksobhya?? Kok saya baca gak ada ya.

Saya baca di Vimalakirti Sutra, bahwa Vimalakiriti bermeditasi pada Tanah Suci Akshobya dan kemudian "menyatukannya" dengan dunia Saha, yang berarti bahwa bila batin kita murni, maka Saha adalah Tanah Murni, tidak ada bedanya dengan Abhirati.

Jadi bukan Abhirati benar-benar menyatu dengan Saha, tetapi yang dipahami di sini adalah "tidak terpisahkan" bagai Jala Indra.

Tidak ada sama-samanya dengan kejadian ngopi bareng.

Lagipula di sana saya menemukan bahwa Shakyamuni Buddhalah yang mengatakan Vimalakirti sebagai Bodhisattva dari Abhirati, berbeda dengan LSY yang mengaku-ngaku sendiri sebagai Bodhisattva Padmakumara dari Sukhavati.

 _/\_
The Siddha Wanderer
Theravada is my root. This is the body of my practice.... It [Tibetan Buddhism]has given me my Compassion practice. Vajrayana is my thunder, my power. This is the heart of my practice..True wisdom is simple and full of lightness and humor. Zen is my no-self (??). This is the soul of my practice.