Maaf sedikit OOT...
Quote from: Kainyn_Kutho on 15 October 2009, 05:26:12 PMMisalnya Bodhisatta Gotama dulu merendahkan ajaran Buddha Kassapa maka di kehidupan terakhirnya,
Ia sulit menembus Buddha-dhamma.
Di lain waktu,
Bodhisatta juga menghina Pacceka Buddha sebagai petapa palsu yang sebetulnya menikmati kesenangan indrawi,
akibatnya di kehidupan terakhir harus mengalami fitnahan dari Sundarika.
Ngeliad aksi dan reaksi, sebab dan akibat, kamma dan vipaka diatas...
Kalau disusun menjadi tabel, kelihatannya menjadi bahan bacaan yang menarik.
Yang tentunya bersumber/dirangkum dari Tipitaka / Komentar.
Terutama apa bila ada sebab yang mirip, dengan vipaka yang berbeda...
yang lebih mantab lage apa bila ada yang bisa menjelaskan mengapa berbeda...
Kelihatannya tabel dan penjelasan2 tersebut bakal ngebantu sedikit banyak tuk saya memahami cara kerja kamma
Namun... takutnya... malah menjadi patokan mati dan salah kaprah... salah pengertian...
atau... sudah ada yang punya tabel-nya ? bisa di share ?
(tapi
bukan yg tabel yg ada di rak-rak buku yg isinya kira-kira: "meniup lilin = sumbing dikemudian hari")
Quote from: Kemenyan on 15 October 2009, 07:41:17 PM
Maaf sedikit OOT...
Quote from: Kainyn_Kutho on 15 October 2009, 05:26:12 PMMisalnya Bodhisatta Gotama dulu merendahkan ajaran Buddha Kassapa maka di kehidupan terakhirnya,
Ia sulit menembus Buddha-dhamma.
Di lain waktu,
Bodhisatta juga menghina Pacceka Buddha sebagai petapa palsu yang sebetulnya menikmati kesenangan indrawi,
akibatnya di kehidupan terakhir harus mengalami fitnahan dari Sundarika.
Ngeliad aksi dan reaksi, sebab dan akibat, kamma dan vipaka diatas...
Kalau disusun menjadi tabel, kelihatannya menjadi bahan bacaan yang menarik.
Yang tentunya bersumber/dirangkum dari Tipitaka / Komentar.
Terutama apa bila ada sebab yang mirip, dengan vipaka yang berbeda...
yang lebih mantab lage apa bila ada yang bisa menjelaskan mengapa berbeda...
Kelihatannya tabel dan penjelasan2 tersebut bakal ngebantu sedikit banyak tuk saya memahami cara kerja kamma
Namun... takutnya... malah menjadi patokan mati dan salah kaprah... salah pengertian...
atau... sudah ada yang punya tabel-nya ? bisa di share ?
(tapi bukan yg tabel yg ada di rak-rak buku yg isinya kira-kira: "meniup lilin = sumbing dikemudian hari")
kalo yang di bold tuh parah =))
kalau dari term theravada, saya belom menemukan
tapi, kalau dari term mahayana ada tuh....
seinget aye,
sering dana penerangan jalan, matanya jd bersinar (dlm artian jernih getuhh.. gak pake kaca panon or ada katarak...)ktnyeee
sepertinya ini mustahil, karena kamma->vipaka bukan one-to-one relationship
jadi has and belongs to many?
harus di normalisasi dulu
heeh, pake join table, jangan join model
btt, memang ada sih, misalnya kalau seseorang tidak menjawab pertanyaan Buddha, kepalanya pecah tujuh :)
Quote from: gachapin on 15 October 2009, 09:33:17 PM
btt, memang ada sih, misalnya kalau seseorang tidak menjawab pertanyaan Buddha, kepalanya pecah tujuh :)
ini juga ada term & condition, hanya berlaku untuk pertanyaan yg sewajarnya, jadi kalo SB tanya soal programming, dan lawannya gak bisa jawab, ini aman (baca: kepala utuh)
Aye bikin duluan tabelnya yah bro ... :))
Quote
cetana BAIK >>> vipaka BAIK
cetana BURUK >>> vipaka BURUK
cetana TAK ADA >>> vipaka TAK ADA
Gitu aja dah ... :D
_/\_
Sayangnya udah diwanti-wanti Sang Buddha bahwa Kamma-vipaka termasuk 1 faktor yg gak mungkin bisa ternalar oleh pikiran dalam AN 4.77: Acintita Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.077.than.html)
So better not waste time ngebuat tabelnya.. ;D
pelawak (ada term dan conditionsnya juga) = masuk neraka / binatang
tentara (ada term dan conditionsnya juga) = masuk neraka / binatang
meditasi 7 hari = minimal jhana
melekat pada jubah = kutu
ugh, dipikir-pikir ada jutaan contoh. acinteyya
Lagian kamma-vipaka kan cakupannya luas, spt kata Om Indro bukan one-to-one relationship dan variabel pengkondisi yg menentukan berakibatnya sebuah kamma pun bukan 1 aja tapi banyak. Bener2 kalo dipikirin cm bakal jd gila dan ga banyak manfaatnya. hehe..
mungkin maksudnya..
biarpun hal2 yg mempengaruhi makhluk itu beragam...
namun sang Buddha bisa mengemukakan penyebab "dominan" dan akibat "dominan"
gitu kale yak mbah menyan :hammer:
biasanya di tabel seperti itu ada dalam aliran mahayana, karena saya pernah mendapatkan selebarannya....
entah bersifat tradisi atau ada hubungannya dengan sutra....i don't know.
yang saya ingat cuma ini..
"berbicara saat dharma dibabarkan akibatnya sumbing atau bisu"
dan total kira-kira ada 30.
versi mahayana :
KARMA SUTRA (http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php/topic,991.0.html)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.than.html
MN 135 PTS: M iii 202
Cula-kammavibhanga Sutta: The Shorter Analysis of Action
....
The Blessed One said: "There is the case, student, where a woman or man is a killer of living beings, brutal, bloody-handed, given to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, hell. If, on the break-up of the body, after death — instead of reappearing in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, hell — he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is short-lived wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a short life: to be a killer of living beings, brutal, bloody-handed, given to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man, having abandoned the killing of living beings, abstains from killing living beings, and dwells with the rod laid down, the knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, & sympathetic for the welfare of all living beings. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination, in the heavenly world. If, on the break-up of the body, after death — instead of reappearing in a good destination, in the heavenly world — he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is long-lived wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a long life: to have abandoned the killing of living beings, to abstain from killing living beings, to dwell with one's rod laid down, one's knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, & sympathetic for the welfare of all living beings.
"There is the case where a woman or man is one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is sickly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to sickliness: to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is healthy wherever reborn. This is the way leading to health: not to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.
"There is the case, where a woman or man is ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, he/she grows offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; shows annoyance, aversion, & bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is ugly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to ugliness: to be ill-tempered & easily upset; even when lightly criticized, to grow offended, provoked, malicious, & resentful; to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, he/she doesn't grow offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; doesn't show annoyance, aversion, or bitterness. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is beautiful wherever reborn. This is the way leading to beauty: not to be ill-tempered or easily upset; even when heavily criticized, not to be offended, provoked, malicious, or resentful; nor to show annoyance, aversion, & bitterness.
"There is the case where a woman or man is envious. He/she envies, begrudges, & broods about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is not influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to not being influential: to be envious, to envy, begrudge, & brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, & veneration.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not envious. He/she does not envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, he/she is influential wherever reborn. This is the way leading to being influential: not to be envious; not to envy, begrudge, or brood about others' gains, honor, respect, reverence, salutations, or veneration.
"There is the case where a woman or man is not a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, or lighting to priests or contemplatives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, he/she is poor wherever reborn. This is the way leading to poverty: not to be a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, or lighting to priests or contemplatives.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, & lighting to priests & contemplatives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is wealthy wherever reborn. This is the way leading to great wealth: to be a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, & lighting to priests & contemplatives.
"There is the case where a woman or man is obstinate & arrogant. He/she does not pay homage to those who deserve homage, rise up for those for whom one should rise up, give a seat to those to whom one should give a seat, make way for those for whom one should make way, worship those who should be worshipped, respect those who should be respected, revere those who should be revered, or honor those who should be honored. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is low-born wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a low birth: to be obstinate & arrogant, not to pay homage to those who deserve homage, nor rise up for... nor give a seat to... nor make way for... nor worship... nor respect... nor revere... nor honor those who should be honored.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not obstinate or arrogant; he/she pays homage to those who deserve homage, rises up... gives a seat... makes way... worships... respects... reveres... honors those who should be honored. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is highborn wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a high birth: not to obstinate or arrogant; to pay homage to those who deserve homage, to rise up... give a seat... make way... worship... respect... revere... honor those who should be honored.
"There is the case where a woman or man when visiting a priest or contemplative, does not ask: 'What is skillful, venerable sir? What is unskillful? What is blameworthy? What is blameless? What should be cultivated? What should not be cultivated? What, having been done by me, will be for my long-term harm & suffering? Or what, having been done by me, will be for my long-term welfare & happiness?' Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she will be stupid wherever reborn. This is the way leading to stupidity: when visiting a priest or contemplative, not to ask: 'What is skillful?... Or what, having been done by me, will be for my long-term welfare & happiness?'
"But then there is the case where a woman or man when visiting a priest or contemplative, asks: 'What is skillful, venerable sir? What is unskillful? What is blameworthy? What is blameless? What should be cultivated? What should not be cultivated? What, having been done by me, will be for my long-term harm & suffering? Or what, having been done by me, will be for my long-term welfare & happiness?' Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is discerning wherever reborn. This is the way leading to discernment: when visiting a priest or contemplative, to ask: 'What is skillful?... Or what, having been done by me, will be for my long-term welfare & happiness?'
"So, student, the way leading to short life makes people short-lived, the way leading to long life makes people long-lived; the way leading to sickliness makes people sickly, the way leading to health makes people healthy; the way leading to ugliness makes people ugly, the way leading to beauty makes people beautiful; the way leading to lack of influence makes people uninfluential, the way leading to influence makes people influential; the way leading to poverty makes people poor, the way leading to wealth makes people wealthy; the way leading to low birth makes people low-born, the way leading to high birth makes people highborn; the way leading to stupidity makes people stupid, the way leading to discernment makes people discerning.
Beings are owners of kamma, heir to kamma, born of kamma, related through kamma, and have kamma as their arbitrator. Kamma is what creates distinctions among beings in terms of coarseness & refinement....
.......
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.136.nymo.html
MN 136 PTS: M iii 207
Maha-kammavibhanga Sutta: The Great Exposition of Kamma
....
The Great Exposition of Kamma
15. (i) "Now, Ananda, there is the person who has killed living beings here... has had wrong view. And on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.7 But (perhaps) the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him earlier, or the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him later, or wrong view was undertaken and completed by him at the time of his death.8 And that was why, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappeared in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. But since he has killed living beings here... has had wrong view, he will feel the result of that here and now, or in his next rebirth, or in some subsequent existence.
16. (ii) "Now there is the person who has killed living beings here... has had wrong view. And on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination, in the heavenly world.9 But (perhaps) the good kamma producing his happiness was done by him earlier, or the good kamma producing his happiness was done by him later, or right view was undertaken and completed by him at the time of his death. And that was why, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappeared in a happy destination, in the heavenly world. But since he has killed living beings here... has had wrong view, he will feel the result of that here and now, or in his next rebirth, or in some subsequent existence.10
17. (iii) "Now there is the person who has abstained from killing living beings here... has had right view. And on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination, in the heavenly world.11 But (perhaps) the good kamma producing his happiness was done by him earlier, or the good kamma producing his happiness was done by him later, or right view was undertaken and completed by him at the time of his death. And that was why, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappeared in a happy destination, in the heavenly world. But since he has abstained from killing living beings here... has had right view, he will feel the result of that here and now, or in his next rebirth, or in some subsequent existence.
18. (iv) "Now there is the person who has abstained from killing living beings here... has had right view. And on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.12 But (perhaps) the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him earlier, or the evil kamma producing his suffering was done by him later, or wrong view was undertaken and completed by him at the time of his death. And that was why, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappeared in the states of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. But since he has abstained from killing living beings here... has had right view, he will feel the result of that here and now, or in his next rebirth, or in some subsequent existence.13
19. "So, Ananda, there is kamma that is incapable (of good result) and appears incapable (of good result); there is kamma that is incapable (of good result) and appears capable (of good result); there is kamma that is capable (of good result) and appears capable (of good result); there is kamma that is capable (of good result) and appears incapable (of good result)."14
This is what the Blessed One said. The venerable Ananda was satisfied and he rejoiced in the Blessed One's words.
[at] Suhu
^:)^ _/\_