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Offline Triyana2009

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Adakah Atman dalam Agama Buddha ?
« on: 26 September 2010, 07:29:51 PM »
Namo Buddhaya,

Sebelumnya saya telah membuat post yang juga membahas Atman dalam Agama Buddha dan Hindu (Agama Buddha dan Agama Hindu kesamaan dan perbedaan. (Mari kita diskusi) ) di thread Agama dan Kepercayaan lainnya.

Kali ini saya akan fokus pada Atman dalam Agama Buddha saja.

Silahkan didebat, kritik, saran.

_/\_

[gmod]Kemenyan:Title: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha -> Adakah Atman dalam Agama Buddha ?[/gmod]
« Last Edit: 02 October 2010, 01:46:30 AM by Kemenyan »

Offline Triyana2009

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #1 on: 26 September 2010, 07:32:04 PM »
Namo Buddhaya,

Ātman (Buddhism)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ātman (Sanskrit: आत्मन्) or Atta (Pāli) is self. Occasionally the terms "soul" or "ego" are used. The words ātman and atta derive from the Indo-European root *ēt-men (breath) and are cognate with the Old English æthm and German Atem.[1] In Buddhism, the belief in the existence of an unchanging ātman is the prime consequence of ignorance, which is itself the cause of all misery and the foundation of saṃsāra. The early scriptures do, however, see an enlightened being as one whose changing, empirical self is highly developed.

Some Mahāyāna Buddhist sutras and tantras present other Buddhist teachings with positive language by strongly insisting upon the ultimate reality of the atman when it is equated with each being's "essential nature of mind" (Dalai Lama —- see relevant section below) or inborn potential to become, and future status as, a Buddha (Tathāgatagarbha doctrine).

In contradistinction to early Buddhist teachings, the Theravāda Dhammakaya Movement of Thailand teaches the reality of a true self, which it equates with nirvana.

The need for Buddhists to understand ātman

Śāntideva (an 8th-century Indian Buddhist philosopher and practitioner) informs us that in order to be able to deny something, we first of all need to know what it is that we are denying.

Without contacting the entity that is imputed
You will not apprehend the absence of that entity. (Bodhicaryāvatāra)
[edit]
The definition of ātman in Buddhism

Candrakīrti contextualises ātman as follows:[2]

Ātman is an essence of things that does not depend on others; it is an intrinsic nature. The non-existence of that is selflessness.

In the Abhidharmapiṭaka (Pāli: Abhidhammapiṭaka), a treatise on metaphysics, the prime doctrine which allows pure Buddhist philosophy to successfully explain all phenomena is that all things happen with cause. Ātman is a conceptual attachment to oneself that promotes a false belief that one is intrinsic and without incident. This attachment further diverges one's route from the path to enlightenment and hence nirvāṇa as all forms of attachment do.

The critique of ātman in Buddhist metaphysics
See also: Buddhism and Hinduism#Atman

With the doctrine of anatta (Pāli; Sanskrit: anātman) Buddhism maintains that the concept of ātman is unnecessary and counterproductive as an explanatory device for analyzing action, causality, karma, and rebirth. Buddhists account for these and other self-related phenomena by means such as pratitya-samutpāda, the skandhas, and, for some schools, a pudgala. Buddhists regard postulating the existence of ātman as undesirable, as they believe it provides the psychological basis for attachment and aversion. Buddhism sees the apparent self (our identification as souls) as a grasping after a self — i.e., inasmuch as we have a self, we have it only through a deluded attempt to shore it up.

Buddhism greatly influenced the development of the Hindu Advaita Vedanta school of philosophy. There too the individual self is deconstructed. Advaita, however, postulates the existence of a monistic metaphysical "being in itself", i.e. Brahman or paramātman as part of its interpretation of the absolutist Upanishads, while Buddhism does not.
[edit]
Developing the self

While the suttas strongly attack notions of an eternal, unchanging Self, they "see an enlightened person as one whose empirical self is highly developed."[3] One with great self has a mind which is not at the mercy of outside stimuli or its own moods, but is imbued with self-control and self-contained.[4] The mind of such a one is without boundaries, not limited by attachment or I-identification.[5] One can transform one's self from an "insignificant self" into a "great self" through practices such as loving-kindness and mindfulness (sati).[6] The suttas portray one disciple who has developed his mind through loving-kindness saying: "Formerly this mind of mine was limited, but now my mind is immeasurable."[6]

At the culmination of the path is the arahant, described as "one of developed self" (bhāvit-atto), who has carried the process of personal development and self-reliance to its perfection.[5] Such a person has developed all the good aspects of their personality.[7] An arahant is described as "one with a mind like a diamond", it can "cut" anything and is itself uncuttable; nothing can affect it.[8] The suttas portray "one of developed self" in the following ways:
Virtue, wisdom, and the meditative and other spiritual faculties are well-developed;
Body is "developed" and "steadfast";
Mind is "developed", "steadfast", "well-released" and without ill-will;
When confronted with objects of the six senses, he or she has equanimity and is not confused, seeing only what is seen, and hearing only what is heard, not mental projections and elaborations such as attachment, desire, and aversion;
The six senses are "controlled" and "guarded";
He or she is "self-controlled" (atta-danto) and "with a well-controlled self" (attanā sudantena); and is
"Unlimited, great, deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom, with much treasure, arisen (like the) ocean."[9]
[edit]

 _/\_

Offline Triyana2009

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #2 on: 26 September 2010, 07:33:01 PM »
Namo Buddhaya,

The Thai Dhammakaya movement’s teachings on non-self and self

Over the past several decades (dating back to at least 1939),[10] a controversial movement of monks and meditation masters, later called the "Dhammakaya Movement", has developed in Thailand. The Dhammakaya Movement teaches that it is erroneous to subsume nirvana under the rubric of anatta (non-self); instead, nirvana is claimed to be the "true self" or dhammakaya. This teaching is strikingly similar to that of the tathāgatagarbha sutras. Professor Paul Williams[11] explains the views of this movement:

[Dhammakaya] meditations involve the realization, when the mind reaches its purest state, of an unconditioned “Dhamma Body” (dhammakaya) in the form of a luminous, radiant and clear Buddha figure free of all defilements and situated within the body of the meditator. Nirvana is the true Self, and this is also the dhammakaya.

The bulk of Thai Theravāda Buddhism rejects this teaching and insists upon non-self as a universal fact. As against this, Phra Rajyanvisith of the Dhammakaya Movement (which does not see itself as Mahāyānist but as modern Theravāda) argues that it tends to be scholars who hold the view of absolute non-self, rather than Buddhist meditators. Also, according to him, only the compounded and conditioned is non-self - not nirvana. Professor Williams summarises Phra Rajyanvisith’s views, and adds his own comment at the end: [12]

[Scholars] incline towards a not-Self perspective. But only scholars hold that view. By way of contrast, Phra Rajyanvisith mentions in particular the realizations of several distinguished forest hermit monks. Moreover, he argues, impermanence, suffering and not-Self go together. Anything which is not-Self is also impermanent and suffering. But, it is argued, nirvana is not suffering, nor is it impermanent. It is not possible to have something which is permanent, not suffering (i.e. is happiness) and yet for it still to be not-Self. Hence it is not not-Self either. It is thus (true, or transcendental) Self … These ways of reading Buddhism in terms of a true Self certainly seem to have been congenial in the East Asian environment, and hence flourished in that context where for complex reasons Mahayana too found a ready home.

Professor Williams sees the Dhammakaya Movement of Thailand as having developed independently of the Mahayana tathāgatagarbha tradition but as achieving some remarkably similar results in their understanding of Buddhism.[13]
[edit]
Positive teachings on the ātman in Mahāyāna Buddhism

Within the Mahāyāna branch of Buddhism, there exists an important class of sutras (influential upon Ch'an and Zen Buddhism), generally known as Buddha nature (tathāgatagarbha) sutras (also: "Buddha-matrix" or "Buddha-embryo" sutras), a number of which affirm that, in contradistinction to the impermanent "mundane self" of the five skandhas (the physical and mental components of the mutable ego), there does exist an eternal true self, which is in fact none other than the Buddha himself in his ultimate nirvanic nature. This is the "true self" in the self of each being, the ideal personality, attainable by all beings due to their inborn potential for enlightenment. The Buddha nature does not represent a substantial self (ātman); rather, it is a positive language and expression of emptiness (śūnyatā) and represents the potentiality to realize Buddhahood through Buddhist practices; the intention of the teaching of Buddha nature is soteriological rather than theoretical.[14]

Prior to the period of the tathāgatagarbha genre, Mahāyāna metaphysics had been dominated by teachings on emptiness in the form of Madhyamaka philosophy. The language used by this approach is primarily negative, and the tathāgatagarbha genre of sutras can be seen as an attempt to state orthodox Buddhist teachings of dependent origination using positive language instead, to prevent people from being turned away from Buddhism by a false impression of nihilism. In these sutras the perfection of the wisdom of not-self is stated to be the true self; the ultimate goal of the path is then characterized using a range of positive language that had been used in Indian philosophy previously by essentialist philosophers, but which was now transmuted into a new Buddhist vocabulary to describe a being who has successfully completed the Buddhist path.[15]

Not all Buddhists and scholars share this interpretation of the doctrine of self in the tathāgatagarbha sutras. Dr. Kosho Yamamoto, who translated the entire Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra into English, tells of how the Buddha speaks in that scripture of doctrines previously not articulated. Now, in order to correct people’s misunderstanding of the Dharma, the Buddha - according to Yamamoto - tells of how He speaks of the positive qualities of nirvana, which includes the self:

He [i.e. the Buddha] says that he is now ready to speak about the undisclosed teachings. Men abide in upside-down thoughts. So he will now speak of the affirmative attributes of Nirvana, which are none other than the Eternal, Bliss, the Self and the Pure.[16]

The Zen Buddhist master, Sekkei Harada, likewise speaks of a true Self in his explications of Zen Buddhism. This true Self is found when one "forgets the ego-self".[17] Harada states that the doctrine of "no-self" really means awakening to a self that is without any limits and thus invisible: "No-self means to awaken to a Self that is so vast and limitless that it cannot be seen."[18] Harada concludes his reflections on Zen Buddhism by speaking of the need for an almost passionate encounter with the "person" of the essential True Self:

… in our lifetime there is only one person we must encounter, one person we must meet as though we were passionately in love. That person is the essential Self, the true Self. As long as you don’t meet this Self, it will be impossible to find true satisfaction in your heart …[19]

Analogously, Professor Michael Zimmermann, a specialist on the Tathāgatagarbha Sūtra, writes: "the existence of an eternal, imperishable self, that is, buddhahood, is definitely the basic point of the Tathagatagarbha Sutra".[20] Professor Zimmermann also declares: "[The compilers of the Tathāgatagarbha Sūtra] did not hesitate to attribute an obviously substantialist notion to the buddha-nature of living beings"[21] and notes the evident total lack of interest in this sutra for any ideas of non-substantialism or "emptiness" (śūnyatā): "Throughout the whole Tathagatagarbha Sutra the term śūnyatā does not even appear once, nor does the general drift of the TGS somehow imply the notion of śūnyatā as its hidden foundation. On the contrary, the sutra uses very positive and substantialist terms to describe the nature of living beings."[22]

Dr. Jamie Hubbard writes on the diverse ways in which the tathāgatagarbha texts (which on occasion speak of the self) are viewed by various scholars, some seeing an absolutist monism in them, others not. Dr. Hubbard comments:

Matsumoto [calls] attention to the similarity between the extremely positive language and causal structure of enlightenment found in the tathagatagarbha literature and that of the substantial monism found in the atman/Brahman tradition. Matsumoto, of course, is not the only one to have noted this resemblance. Takasaki Jikido, for example, the preeminent scholar of the tathagatagarbha tradition, sees monism in the doctrine of the tathagatagarbha and the Mahayana in general … Obermiller wedded this notion of a monistic Absolute to the tathagatagarbha literature in his translation and comments to the Ratnagotra, which he aptly subtitled “A Manual of Buddhist Monism” … Lamotte and Frauwallner have seen the tathagatagarbha doctrine as diametrically opposed to the Madhyamika and representing something akin to the monism of the atman/Brahman strain, while yet others such as Nagao, Seyfort Ruegg, and Johnston (the editor of the Ratnagotra) simply voice their doubts and state that it seems similar to post-Vedic forms of monism. Yet another camp, represented by Yamaguchi Susumu and his student Ogawa Ichijo, is able to understand tathagatagarbha thought without recourse to Vedic notions by putting it squarely within the Buddhist tradition of conditioned causality and emptiness, which, of course, explicitly rejects monism of any sort. Obviously, the question of the monist or absolutist nature of the tathagatagarbha and Buddha-nature traditions is complex.[23]

Dr. Hubbard concludes his investigation into the notion of tathāgatagarbha with the words:

the teaching of the tathagatagarbha has always been debatable, for it is fundamentally an affirmative approach to truth and wisdom, offering descriptions of reality not in negative terms of what it is lacking or empty of (apophatic description, typical of the Pefection of Wisdom corpus and the Madhyhamika school) but rather in positive terms of what it is (cataphatic description, more typical of the devotional, tantric, Mahaparinirvana and Lotus Sutra traditions, and, it should be noted, the monistic terms of the orthodox Brahmanic systems)[24]

The true self of the Buddha is indeed said to be pure, real and blissful, and to be attainable by anyone in the state of mahāparinirvāṇa. Furthermore, the essence of that Buddha — the Buddha-dhātu ("Buddha-nature", "Buddha principle"), or Dharmakāya, as it is termed — is present in all sentient beings and is described as "radiantly luminous". This Buddha-dhātu is said in the Nirvāṇa Sūtra to be the uncreated, immutable and immortal essence (svabhāva) of all beings, which can never be harmed or destroyed. The most extensive sutra promulgating this as an "ultimate teaching" (uttara-tantra) on the Buddhic essence of all creatures, animals included, is the Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra. There we read in words attributed to the Buddha: "... it is not the case that they [i.e. all phenomena] are devoid of the Self. What is this Self? Any phenomenon ["dharma"] that is true ["satya"], real ["tattva"], eternal ["nitya"], sovereign/autonomous ["aishvarya"] and whose foundation is unchanging ["ashraya-aviparinama"] is termed 'the Self' [atman]." (translated from Dharmakṣema's version of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra). This true self — so the Buddha of such scriptures indicates — must never be confused with the ordinary, ever-changing, worldly ego, which, with all its emotional and moral taints and turmoil, conceals the true self from view. Far from being possessed of the negative attributes of the mundane ego, the Buddhic or nirvanic Self is proclaimed by the Buddha of the Nirvāṇa Sūtra to be characterised by "great loving-kindness, great compassion, great sympathetic joy, and great equanimity" (see: the four Brahmavihāras).

In equating the Buddha-nature with practice, King argues that the author of the Buddha-Nature Treatise "undercuts any possibility of conceiving Buddha nature as an entity of any kind, as a Hindu–like Ātman or even as a purely mental process."[25]

In the Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra the Buddha is portrayed explaining that he proclaims all beings to have Buddha-nature in the sense that they will in the future become Buddhas:

Good son, there are three ways of having: first, to have in the future, secondly, to have at present, and thirdly, to have in the past. All sentient beings will have in future ages the most perfect enlightenment, i.e., the Buddha nature. All sentient beings have at present bonds of defilements, and do not now possess the thirty-two marks and eighty noble characteristics of the Buddha. All sentient beings had in past ages deeds leading to the elimination of defilements and so can now perceive the Buddha nature as their future goal. For such reasons, I always proclaim that all sentient beings have the Buddha nature.[14]

In the later Lankāvatāra Sūtra it is said that the tathāgatagarbha might be mistaken for a self, which it is not.[26]

Some other Buddhist sutras and tantras also speak affirmatively of the self. For instance, the Mahabheriharaka Sutra insists: "... at the time one becomes a Tathagata, a Buddha, he is in nirvana, and is referred to as 'permanent', 'steadfast', 'calm', 'eternal', and 'Self' [atman]." Similarly, the Śrīmālā Sūtra declares unequivocally: "When sentient beings have faith in the Tathagata [Buddha] and those sentient beings conceive [him] with permanence, pleasure, self, and purity, they do not go astray. Those sentient beings have the right view. Why so? Because the Dharmakaya [ultimate nature] of the Tathagata has the perfection of permanence, the perfection of pleasure, the perfection of self, the perfection of purity. Whatever sentient beings see the Dharmakaya of the Tathagata that way, see correctly."[27] An early Buddhist tantra, the Guhyasamājā Tantra, declares: "The universal Self of entities sports by means of the illusory samādhi. It performs the deeds of a Buddha while stationed at the traditional post" (i.e. while never moving). The same tantra also imbues the self with radiant light (a common image): "The pure Self, adorned with all adornments, shines with a light of blazing diamond ..." [28] And the All-Creating King Tantra (the Kunjed Gyalpo Tantra, a scripture of the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism, also designated a sutra) has the primordial Buddha, Samantabhadra, state, "... the root of all things is nothing else but one Self … I am the place in which all existing things abide."[29]

Furthermore, the Tibetan Buddhist scripture entitled The Expression of Manjushri's Ultimate Names (Mañjuśrī-nāma-saṅgīti), as quoted by the Tibetan Buddhist master, Dolpopa,[30] applies the following terms to the Ultimate Buddhic Reality:

"the Pervasive Lord"

"the Supreme Guardian of the world"

"Buddha-Self"

"the Beginningless Self"

"the Self of Thusness"

"the Self of primordial purity"

"the Source of all"

"the Single Self"

"the Diamond Self"

"the Solid Self"

"the Holy, Immovable Self"

"the Supreme Self"

"the Supreme Self of All Creatures".

Moreover, with reference to one of Vasubandhu's commentarial works, Dolpopa affirms the reality of the pure self, which is not the worldly ego, in the following terms:

"... the uncontaminated element is the buddhas' supreme Self ... because buddhas have attained pure Self, they have become the Self of great Selfhood. Through this consideration, the uncontaminated is posited as the supreme Self of buddhas."[31]

 _/\_

Offline Triyana2009

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #3 on: 26 September 2010, 07:34:12 PM »
Namo Buddhaya,

The 14th Dalai Lama on the "subtle person or self"

In 2005, commenting on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, a text in the highest yoga tantra, the 14th Dalai Lama explained how this tantra conceives both of a temporary person, and a subtle person or self, which it links to the Buddha nature. He writes:

… when we look at [the] interdependence of mental and physical constituents from the perspective of Highest Yoga Tantra, there are two concepts of a person. One is the temporary person or self, that is as we exist at the moment, and this is labeled on the basis of our coarse or gross physical body and conditioned mind, and, at the same time, there is a subtle person or self which is designated in dependence on the subtle body and subtle mind. This subtle body and subtle mind are seen as a single entity that has two facets. The aspect which has the quality of awareness, which can reflect and has the power of cognition, is the subtle mind. Simultaneously, there is its energy, the force that activates the mind towards its object – this is the subtle body or subtle wind. These two inextricably conjoined qualities are regarded, in Highest Yoga Tantra, as the ultimate nature of a person and are identified as buddha nature, the essential or actual nature of mind.[32]

 _/\_

Offline JimyTBH

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #4 on: 26 September 2010, 07:36:53 PM »
Ketika sseorang yg suci parinibbana, dan panca khanda lenyap, tapi tidak hilang/nihil sama sekali.
Berarti ada sesuatu dibalik bukan nihil itu, iya yg "ada" itu merupakan atman buddhist/sugatagarbha??

Offline Jerry

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #5 on: 26 September 2010, 11:07:29 PM »
Ada koq atman, dalam kata anatman ada -atman. Ada koq atta, dalam kata anatta ada -atta. Puas? :D
appamadena sampadetha

Offline Indra

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #6 on: 26 September 2010, 11:29:20 PM »
 [at]  Bro Triyana,
jika anda membuka suatu topik dengan judul "Ada atman dalam Agama Buddha", judul topik ini saja sudah menunjukkan prinsip dan keyakinan anda, jadi bagaimana kita bisa berdiskusi?
saya lihat anda hanya memerlukan pendapat2 yg sama dengan anda.

jadi silahkan yg sependapat dengan Bro Triyana berpartisipasi di sini

Offline Nevada

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #7 on: 26 September 2010, 11:33:03 PM »
[at]  Bro Triyana,
jika anda membuka suatu topik dengan judul "Ada atman dalam Agama Buddha", judul topik ini saja sudah menunjukkan prinsip dan keyakinan anda, jadi bagaimana kita bisa berdiskusi?
saya lihat anda hanya memerlukan pendapat2 yg sama dengan anda.

jadi silahkan yg sependapat dengan Bro Triyana berpartisipasi di sini

Melihat postingan pembuka dari Bro Triyana2009, tertulis kalimat berikut... "Silahkan didebat, kritik, saran.". Justru ini artinya Bro Triyana2009 mengajak teman-teman yang tidak sependapat dengannya untuk berpartisipasi di sini.

Offline Kelana

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #8 on: 26 September 2010, 11:39:28 PM »
Silahkan dicerna dahulu baik-baik dari apa yang dimaksud Sang Buddha dalam Lankavatara Sutra Bab 6, khususnya yang dibold, jangan berdasarkan pendapat orang, coba cerna dengan pikiran sendiri.

Tathagata-garbha is not the same as the ego taught by the philosophers; for what the Tathagatas teach is the Tathagata-garbha in the sense, Mahamati, that it is emptiness, reality-limit, Nirvana, being unborn, unqualified, and devoid of will-effort; the reason why the Tathagatas who are Arhats and Fully-Enlightened Ones, teach the doctrine pointing to the Tathagata-garbha is to make the ignorant cast aside their fear when they listen to the teaching of egolessness and to have them realise the state of non-discrimination and imagelessness.

Ini tertera dalam SUTRA MAHAYANA, bukan pendapat saya, bukan pendapat seorang bhiksu, bukan pendapat kelompok yang baru muncul belakangan.


« Last Edit: 26 September 2010, 11:53:20 PM by Kelana »
GKBU
 
_/\_ suvatthi hotu


- finire -

Offline xenocross

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #9 on: 27 September 2010, 08:38:25 AM »
yah ada trit baru.... itu yang saya post di trit asli apa perlu direpost kesini?
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline Indra

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #10 on: 27 September 2010, 09:24:24 AM »
yah ada trit baru.... itu yang saya post di trit asli apa perlu direpost kesini?

saya bantuin ya


saya ubek2 koleksi ebook saya nih


Q : A re you familiar with the Hindu concepts of atman and brahman ?

Lama: While Hindu philosophy accepts the idea of a soul [atman], Buddhism does not. We completely deny the existence of a self-existent I, or a permanent, independent soul. Every aspect of your body
and mind is impermanent: changing, changing, changing. . . .
Buddhists also deny the existence of a permanent hell. Every pain, every pleasure we experience is in a state of constant flux; so transitory, so impermanent, always changing, never lasting. Therefore,
recognizing the dissatisfactory nature of our existence and renouncing the world in which transitory sense objects contact transitory sense organs to produce transitory feelings, none of which are worth
grasping at, we seek instead the everlasting, eternally joyful realizations of enlightenment or nirvana.
(hal 43)

Lama: Philosophically, the soul can be interpreted in a number of ways. In Christianity and Hinduism, the soul is different from the mind and is considered to be something permanent and self-existent.
In my opinion, there’s no such thing. In Buddhist terminology, the soul, mind or whatever you call it is ever-changing, impermanent. I don’t really make a distinction between mind and soul, but within yourself you can’t find anything that’s permanent or selfexistent.
With respect to mental problems, don’t think that the mind is totally negative; it’s the uncontrolled mind that causes problems. If you develop the right kind of wisdom and thereby recognize
the nature of the uncontrolled mind, it will automatically disappear.
But until you do, the uncontrolled mind will completely dominate you.
(hal 62)

Q: What is our mind’s true nature and how do we go about recognizing it?

Lama: There are two aspects to the mind’s nature, the relative and the absolute. The relative is the mind that perceives and functions in the sense world. We also call that mind dualistic and because of
what I describe as its “that-this” perception, it is totally agitated in nature. However, by transcending the dualistic mind, you can unify your view. At that time you realize the absolute true nature of the
mind, which is totally beyond the duality. In dealing with the sense world in our normal, everyday, mundane life, two things always appear. The appearance of two things always creates a problem. It’s
like children—one alone is OK, two together always make trouble.
Similarly, as our five senses interpret the world and supply dualistic information to our mind, our mind grasps at that view, and that automatically causes conflict and agitation. This is the complete
opposite of the experience of inner peace and freedom. Therefore, by reaching beyond that you will experience perfect peace. Now, this is just a short reply to what you asked and perhaps it’s unsatisfactory,
because it’s a big question. What I’ve said is merely a simple introduction to a profound topic. However, if you have some background in this subject, my answer might satisfy you.
(hal62-63)

Becoming Your Own Therapist
New Expanded Edition
Including
Make Your Mind an Ocean
Lama Yeshe
LAMA YESHE WISDOM ARCHIVE • BOSTON

www.fpmt.org

Offline ryu

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #11 on: 27 September 2010, 09:25:46 AM »
Silahkan dicerna dahulu baik-baik dari apa yang dimaksud Sang Buddha dalam Lankavatara Sutra Bab 6, khususnya yang dibold, jangan berdasarkan pendapat orang, coba cerna dengan pikiran sendiri.

Tathagata-garbha is not the same as the ego taught by the philosophers; for what the Tathagatas teach is the Tathagata-garbha in the sense, Mahamati, that it is emptiness, reality-limit, Nirvana, being unborn, unqualified, and devoid of will-effort; the reason why the Tathagatas who are Arhats and Fully-Enlightened Ones, teach the doctrine pointing to the Tathagata-garbha is to make the ignorant cast aside their fear when they listen to the teaching of egolessness and to have them realise the state of non-discrimination and imagelessness.

Ini tertera dalam SUTRA MAHAYANA, bukan pendapat saya, bukan pendapat seorang bhiksu, bukan pendapat kelompok yang baru muncul belakangan.



mungkin karena sutra sang buddha sudah ketinggalan jaman makanya dari wiki itu lebih valid oom =))
Janganlah memperhatikan kesalahan dan hal-hal yang telah atau belum dikerjakan oleh diri sendiri. Tetapi, perhatikanlah apa yang telah dikerjakan dan apa yang belum dikerjakan oleh orang lain =))

Offline xenocross

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #12 on: 27 September 2010, 09:59:49 AM »
sudah menjadi sifatnya bahwa tidak ada yang telah muncul,
tidak ada yang akan muncul, tidak ada yang eksis (saat ini),
tak ada (obyek) yang berdiam, tak ada subyek, tidak ada suatu hal yang eksis
Semoga aku merealisasikan kekosongan fenomena (sunyata)

(Sesungguhnya) seperti tidak ada Buddha, tak ada resi agung,
tidak ada makhluk biasa, tidak ada kehidupan,
tidak ada makhluk hidup, dan tiada yang hidup
Semoga aku merealisasi ke-tanpa aku-an (anatta)

(Arya Maitreya Prayer/ Arya Matripranidhanaraja)


The Bhagavän said, “Subhüti, it is so; if some bodhisattva were to say, ‘I shall cause sentient beings to completely pass beyond sorrow,’ he should not be called ‘bodhisattva.’ Why is that? Subhüti, does the dharma that is called ‘bodhisattva’ exist whatsoever?”
Subhüti replied, “Bhagavän, it does not.”
The Bhagavän said, “Subhüti, therefore, it was taught by the Tathägata that ‘all dharmas are without a sentient being, without a living being, without a person.’
“Subhüti, if some bodhisattva were to say, ‘I shall actualize arranged fields,’ he too should be expressed similarly.52 Why is that? Subhüti, because the arranged fields called ‘arranged fields’
are those taught by the Tathägata as non-arranged. Therefore, they are called ‘arranged fields.’ Subhüti, whatever bodhisattva appreciates that dharmas are selfless, saying ‘dharmas are selfless,’
he is expressed by the Tathägata Arhat Perfectly Completed Buddha as a bodhisattva called a ‘bodhisattva.’
.........
“Subhüti, what do you think about this? If it is thought that the Tathägata considers, ‘Sentient beings are liberated by me,’
Subhüti, do not view it like that. Why is that? Subhüti, because those sentient beings who are liberated by the Tathägata do not exist whatsoever. Subhüti, if some sentient being were to be liberated by the Tathägata, that itself would be, of the Tathägata, grasping a self, grasping a sentient being, grasping a living being, grasping a person. Subhüti, so-called ‘grasping a self,’ that is taught by the Tathägata as non-grasping, yet that is grasped by childish ordinary beings. Subhüti, so-called ‘childish ordinary
beings,’ they were taught by the Tathägata as just non-beings; therefore, they are called ‘childish ordinary beings.’
Vajracedika Sutta
The Exalted Mahäyäna Sütra
on the Wisdom Gone Beyond called
THE VAJRA CUTTER
based on the Tibetan Lhasa Zhol printing
translated into English by Gelong Thubten Tsultrim

www.fpmt.org


"He or she needs to keep in view, fully and in detail, the five aggregate factors of his or her experience and those as devoid of self-establishing nature. Form - voidness; voidness - form. Form not separate from voidness; voidness not separate from form. (What has form, that has voidness; what has voidness, that has form.) Similarly, feeling, distinguishing, affecting variables, types of consciousness - voidness. It's like that, Shariputra, with all phenomena - voidness: no defining characteristics, no arising, no stopping, no being stained, no being parted from stain, no being deficient, no being additional.

"Because it's like that, Shariputra, in voidness, no form, no feeling, no distinction, no affecting variables, no kind of consciousness. No eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. No sight, no sound, no smell, no taste, no physical sensation, no phenomena. No cognitive source that's an eye, up to no cognitive source that's a mind, (no cognitive source that's phenomena), no cognitive source that's mental consciousness. No unawareness, no elimination of unawareness, up to no aging and death, no elimination of aging and death. Likewise, no suffering, cause, stopping, and pathway mind. No deep awareness, no attainment, no non-attainment.
The Heart Sutra


Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline xenocross

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #13 on: 27 September 2010, 10:07:14 AM »
“On that night, in the third watch (about 1:00 A.M.) so that no one else
knew, [Shenxiu] took a lamp and wrote his verse on the wall of the south corridor,
submitting [to the patriarch] the viewpoint of his mind. The verse read:

The body is the bodhi tree;
The mind is like a bright mirror’s stand.
Be always diligent in rubbing it—
Do not let it attract any dust.

(hal 20)

“The Administrative Aide said, ‘Just recite your verse. I will write it for
you. If you attain the Dharma, you must save me first (i.e., before teaching
anyone else). Don’t forget what I say!’
“My verse went:

Bodhi is fundamentally without any tree;
The bright mirror is also not a stand.
Fundamentally there is not a single thing—
Where could any dust be attracted?

(hal 22)

THE PLATFORM SUTRA OF THE SIXTH PATRIARCH
Translated from the Chinese of Zongbao
(Taishō Volume 48, Number 2008)
by John R. McRae
Numata Center for Buddhist Translation and Research
2000

« Last Edit: 27 September 2010, 10:23:16 AM by xenocross »
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline xenocross

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Re: Ada Atman dalam Agama Buddha
« Reply #14 on: 27 September 2010, 10:18:48 AM »
buset dah anda membuat saya mengobrak abrik folder Mahayana Sutra ........
Ini sutra favorit saya..... Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra

"'Reverend Maudgalyayana, the Dharma is without living beings, because it is free of the dust of living beings.

It is selfless, because it is free of the dust of desire. It is lifeless, because it is free of birth and death. It is without personalities, because it dispenses with past origins and future destinies.

"'The Dharma is peace and pacification, because it is free from desire. It does not become an object, because it is free of words and letters; it is inexpressible, and it transcends all movement of mind.

"'The Dharma is omnipresent, because it is like infinite space. It is without color, mark, or shape, because it is free of all process. It is without the concept of "mine," because it is free of the habitual notion of possession. It is without ideation, because it is free of mind, thought, or consciousness. It is incomparable, because it has no antitheses. It is without presumption of conditionality, because it does not conform to causes.

"'It permeates evenly all things, because all are included in the ultimate realm. It conforms to reality by means of the process of nonconformity. It abides at the reality-limit, for it is utterly without fluctuation. It is immovable, because it is independent of the six objects of sense. It is without coming and going, for it never stands still. It is comprised by void ness, is remarkable through sign-less-ness, and is free of presumption and repudiation, because of wish-less-ness. It is without establishment and rejection, without birth or destruction. It is without any fundamental consciousness, transcending the range of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and thought. It is without highness and lowness. It abides without movement or activity.

"'Reverend Maha-Maudgalyayana, how could there be a teaching in regard to such a Dharma? Reverend Maha-Maudgalyayana, even the expression "to teach the Dharma" is presumptuous, and those who listen to it listen to presumption. Reverend Maudgalyayana, where there are no presumptuous words, there is no teacher of the Dharma, no one to listen, and no one to understand. It is as if an illusory person were to teach the Dharma to illusory people.
---------------------

Katyayana replied, "Lord, I am indeed reluctant to go that good man to inquire about his illness. Why? Lord, I remember one day when, after the Lord had given some brief instruction to the monks, I was defining the expressions of that discourse by teaching the meaning of impermanence, suffering, selflessness, and peace; the Licchavi Vimalakirti came there and said to me, 'Reverend Maha-Katyayana, do not teach an ultimate reality endowed with activity, production, and destruction! Reverend Maha-Katyayana, nothing was ever destroyed, is destroyed, or will ever be destroyed. Such is the meaning of "impermanence." The meaning of the realization of birthlessness, through the realization of the void ness of the five aggregates, is the meaning of "suffering." The fact of the non-duality of self and selflessness is the meaning of "selflessness." That which has no intrinsic substance and no other sort of substance does not burn, and what does not burn is not extinguished; such lack of extinction is the meaning of "peace."'

Jadi menurut Mahayana sesungguhnya tidak ada "api" yang terbakar, karena bahan pembakarnya pun sebenarnya gak ada. Aduh njelimetnya
-----------------------------------------

Thereupon, Manjusri, the crown prince, addressed the Licchavi Vimalakirti: "Good sir, how should a bodhisattva regard all living beings?"

Vimalakirti replied, "Manjusri, a bodhisattva should regard all livings beings as a wise man regards the reflection of the moon in water or as magicians regard men created by magic. He should regard them as being like a face in a mirror; like the water of a mirage; like the sound of an echo; like a mass of clouds in the sky; like the previous moment of a ball of foam; like the appearance and disappearance of a bubble of water; like the core of a plantain tree; like a flash of lightning; like the fifth great element; like the seventh sense-medium; like the appearance of matter in an immaterial realm; like a sprout from a rotten seed; like a tortoise-hair coat; like the fun of games for one who wishes to die; like the egoistic views of a stream-winner; like a third rebirth of a once-returner; like the descent of a non-returner into a womb; like the existence of desire, hatred, and folly in a saint; like thoughts of avarice, immorality, wickedness, and hostility in a bodhisattva who has attained tolerance; like the instincts of passions in a Tathágata; like the perception of color in one blind from birth; like the inhalation and exhalation of an ascetic absorbed in the meditation of cessation; like the track of a bird in the sky; like the erection of a eunuch; like the pregnancy of a barren woman; like the un-produced passions of an emanated incarnation of the Tathágata; like dream-visions seen after waking; like the passions of one who is free of conceptualizations; like fire burning without fuel; like the reincarnation of one who has attained ultimate liberation.

"Precisely thus, Manjusri, does a bodhisattva who realizes the ultimate selflessness consider all beings."
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra