Forum DhammaCitta. Forum Diskusi Buddhis Indonesia
Buddhisme Awal, Sekte dan Tradisi => Theravada => Topic started by: Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci on 29 March 2008, 12:45:38 PM
-
Menjawab pertanyaan Ci Lily kenapa saya bilang Bhikkhu lepas jubah selalu akusala kamma...
Sebenarnya saya gak niat posting, karena bisa jadi bahan keributan...
Tapi gak apa-apa untuk membuka wawasan, jangan jadikan posting ini untuk menilai orang, untuk menghakimi orang lain...
http://www.vipassana.info/067-catuma-e1.htm (http://www.vipassana.info/067-catuma-e1.htm)
MAJJHIMA NIKAAYA II
II. 2. 7. Caatumasutta.m
(67)The Discourse at Catuma.
I heard thus.
At one time the Blessed One was living in the Aamalaki forest in Catuma. At that time about five hundred bhikkhus had come to Catuma headed by venerable Saariputta and venerable Moggallana to see the Blessed One.While exchanging friendly greetings, arranging beddings, putting away bowls and robes, they made much noise.The Blessed One addressed venerable Ananda: ‘Ananda, who are those making such a noise, like fishermen hauling a catch of fish’ ‘Venerable sir, about five hundred bhikkhus, headed by Sariputta and Moggallana have arrived in Catuma to see the Blessed One. They exchanging friendly greetings.with the resident bhikkhus, while arranging beddings, putting away bowls and robes are making much noise.Then Ananda, call those bhikkhus in my words’.. Venerable Ananda agreed, approached those bhikkhus and said. ‘Venerable ones, the Teacher calls you.’. Then those bhikkhus, agreeing approached the Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side.The Blessed One addressed those bhikkhus. ‘Bhikkhus, why do you make such a big noise? It’s like fishermen hauling a catch of fish.’ ‘Venerable sir, about five hundred bhikkhus, headed by Sariputta and Moggallana have arrived in Catuma to see the Blessed One.Exchanging friendly greetings, with the the resident bhikkhus, arranging beddings, putting away bowls and robes they are making much noise’. ‘Go! Bhikkhus, I turn you away, you should not stay close to me’. Those bhikkhus, agreed, worshipped the Blessed One circumambulated the Blessed One and taking their bowls and robes left the presence of the Blessed One.
At that time the Sakyas of Catuma had assembled in the assembly hall for some matter. The Sakyas of Catuma saw the bhikkhus going away in the distance, approaching them said thus:’Venerable Ones, why do you go away?’ ‘The Blessed One has turned out the Community of bhikkhus’.’Then venerable ones wait a moment, perhaps I would be able to win over the Blessed One’ Then those bhikkhus listened to the words of the Sakyas of Catuma and waited. The Sakyas of Catuma approached the Blessed One worshipped the Blessed One and sitting on a side said thus: ‘Let, the Blessed One take pleasure in the Community of bhikkhus. May, the Blessed One welcome, the community of bhikkhus, As the Blessed One showed compassion to the community in the past, let compassion be shown now too. Venerable sir, here, there are new bhikkhus, those gone forth recently. If they do not get a chance to see the Blessed One, they would change their minds. Like small plants that die in want of water. Venerable sir, if these bhikkhus recently come to the dispensation do not get a chance to see the Blessed One they would change their minds. Like the calf that would be disturbed not seeing the mother. Venerable sir, in the same manner if these bhikkhus recently come to the dispensation do not get a chance to see the Blessed One they would change their minds. May the Blessed One take pleasure in the Community of bhikkhus. May the Blessed One welcome the community of bhikkhus, As the Blessed One showed compassion to the communityin the past, let there be compassion now too.’
Then Brahma Sahampati knowing the Blessed One’s thoughts, as a strong man would stretch his bent arm, or bend his stretched arm in that manner disappearing from the world of Brahma appeared before the Blessed One. Brahma Sahamapathy arranging his shawl on one shoulder and clasping hands towards the Blessed One said ‘Let the Blessed One take pleasure in the Community of bhikkhus. May the Blessed One welcome the community of bhikkhus, As the Blessed One showed compassion to the community in the past, let compassion be shown now too. Venerable sir, here, there are new bhikkhus, those gone forth recently. If they do not get a chance to see the Blessed One, they would change their minds, like small plants that die in want of water. Venerable sir, if these bhikkhus recently come to the dispensation do not get a chance to see the Blessed One they would change their minds. Like the calf that would be disturbed not seeing the mother. Venerable sir, in the same manner if these bhikkhus recently come to the dispensation do not get a chance to see the Blessed One they would change their minds. Let the Blessed One take pleasure in the Community of bhikkhus. May the Blessed One welcome the community of bhikkhus, As the Blessed One showed compassion to the community in the past, let compassion be shown now too.’
The Sakyas of Catuma and Brahma Sahampati could win over the Blessed One with the comparison of the plants and the calf. Then venerable Mahamoggallana addressed the bhikkhus: ‘Friends, get up, take your bowls and robes, it was possible for the Sakyas of catuma and Brahma Sahampati to win over the Blessed One with the comparison of the plants and the calf’. Those bhikkhus agreeing got up from their seats and taking bowls and robes, approached the Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side. Then the Blessed One spoke to venerable Sariputta. ‘Sariputta, when I turned away the Community of bhikkhus, what occurred to you?’ ‘Venerable sir, it occurred to me. The Blessed One will abide in pleasantness here and now, unconcerned, I too will abide in pleasantness here and now, unconcerned. Come! Sariputta, you should not arouse such a thought in the future’ Then the Blessed One addresssed venerable Mahamoggallana: ‘Moggallana, when I turned away the Community of bhikkhus, what occurred to you?’.’Venerable sir, it occurrd to me thus: The Blessed One will abide in pleasantness here and now unconcerned, I and venerable Sariputta will lead the Community of bhikkhus.’ ‘Good! Moggallana, either I or Sariputta and Moggallana should lead the Community of bhikkhus’.
Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: ‘Bhikkhus, four fears should be expected by one descending to water: What four? Fear of, waves, crocodiles, whirl pools and alligators. Bhikkhus, these four fears should be expected by one enteringwater. In the same manner four fears should be expected by a person leaving the household to become a homeless. What four?. The fear of waves, fear of crocodiles, fear of whirlpools and fear of alligators.
Bhikkhus, what is the fear of waves? Bhikkhus, a certain son of a clansman out of faith goes forth from a household. He becomes a homeless thinking am overcome by birth, decay, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress.There’s only a few who could declare the complete ending of this unpleasantness.The co-associates in the holy life, advise him.You should go forward like this, turn and go like this, Look on, like thisand look this and other side like this. Thus you should bend your limbs and stretch you limbs.Thus you should bear the three robes and bowl. Then it occurs to him: When I was a householder, I advised others, here I have to abide by the advice of those who are like my sons and grand sons. Then he gives up robes and becomes a layman, out of fear for waves, it is said. Bhikkhus, fear of waves is a synonymn for anger and aversion.
Bhikkhus, what is the fear of crocodiles?.Bhikkhus, a certain son of a clansman out of faith goes forth from a household. He becomes a homeless thinking, I’m overcome by birth, decay, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress.There are only a few who could declare the complete ending of this unpleasantness.The co-associates in the holy life, advise him.You should eat this, should not eat this.You should partake thus, not partake thus, You should taste thus and not taste thus. You should drink thus, and not drink thus. You should drink the suitable and avoid the unsuitable. Eat, partake and taste the suitable and avoid the unsuitable. You should eat and partake at the right time, avoid eating food at untimely hours. Then it occurs to him. When I was a householder, I ate what I liked, and not what I disliked, Partook what I liked and not what I disliked. Drank what I liked and not what I disliked. I ate, partook, tasted and drank the suitable and the unsuitable. I partook, tasted and drank at timely hours and at untimely hours.Householders offer us nourishing food and drinks out of faith during the day time, when it is not the correct time. I think it is a restriction for the mouth. Then he gives up robes and becomes a layman. He gives up robes and becomes a layman, out of fear for crocodiles it is said. Crocodiles is a synonymn for, greed for food.
Bhikkhus, what is the fear for whirl pools? Bhikkhus, a certain son of a clansman out of faith goes forth from a household and becomes a homeless thinking I’m overcome by birth, decay, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. He thinks there’s only a few who could declare the complete ending of this unpleasantness. He gone forth thus, putting on robes in the morning, takes bowl and robes and goes the alms round, in the village or hamlet controlled in body and speech, mindfulness not established and mental faculties not protected. In the village he sees a householder or the son of a householder partaking the five strands of sensual pleasures, possessed and provided with them. Then it occurs to him, when I was a householder, I too partook these five strands of sensual pleasures, possessed and provided. I have wealth in my clan, to enjoy these sensual pleasures. I could do merit, too. Then he gives up robes and becomes a layman. He gives up robes and becomes a layman out of fear for whirlpools, it is said. Bhikkhus, fear for whirlpool is a synonymn for, the five strands of sensual pleasures.
Bhikkhus, what is the fear for alligaters? .Bhikkhus, a certain son of a clansman out of faith goes forth from a household. He becomes a homeless thinking I’m overcome by birth, decay, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. There are only a few who could declare the complete ending of this unpleasantness. He gone forth thus, putting on robes in the morning, taking bowl and robes goes the alms round, in the village or hamlet controlled in body and speech, mindfulness not established and mental faculties not protected. In the village he sees a woman not well covered and dressed. Seeing her in that manner, greed assails his mind and with a mind assailed by greed he gives up robes and becomes a layman.He gives up robes and becomes a layman out of fear for alligaters. Bhikkhus, fear for alligaters is a synonymn for women.
Bhikkhus, these are the four fears, that should be expected by a certain person who goes forth as a homeless, in this dispensation of the Discipline.
The Blessed One said thus and those bhikkhus delighted in the words of the Blessed One.
Ada 4 penyebab kenapa seorang Bhikkhu lepas jubah yang diumpamakan ketakutan seseorang yang keluar dari air :gelombang, buaya, pusaran air, dan aligator (kalo gak salah terjemahan lainnya menyebutkan ikan hiu)
Gelombang adalah sinonim untuk kemarahan dan kebencian
Buaya adalah sinonim untuk keserakahan terhadap makanan
Pusaran air adalah sinonim untuk 5 nafsu sensual
Aligator (terjemahan lain ikan hiu) adalah sinonim untuk wanita
Di Sutta lain (Salaḷāgāra Sutta, SN.v.300-1; Connected Discourses II.1756.), YM Anuruddha menyebutkan sangat sulit seseorang yang mempunyai perhatian penuh untuk lepas jubah, sama seperti membalikkan arus sungai Gangga. Hal ini dijelaskan juga di Milindapanha, dan komentar terhadap Moliyaphaggunasutta, bahwa seseorang dengan perhatian penuh tidak akan lepas jubah.
Kesimpulan yang saya ambil mengapa seorang yang lepas jubah selalu akusala :
Karena 4 alasan di atas.
Seseorang yang dengan alasan mulia meninggalkan kehidupan duniawi, menjalankan kehidupan suci kemudian ke kehidupan duniawi, merupakan akusala
seseorang yang punya perhatian penuh meninggalkan perhatian penuh, akusala.
-
mempertahankan perhatian penuh ini engak gampang lohhh
kalau bhikkhuni lepas jubah ada sebabnya tdk???apa sama aja
-
^sama aja
simplenya kata karuna, melepaskan kehidupan suci dan kembali ke kehidupan biasa (pemuasan indra) penyebabnya adalah moha dan lobha 'atau' dosa'
-
Bukannya Bhikkhu boleh lepas jubah maksimal 7x dalam 1 kehidupan? (CMIIW)
-
tentu saja boleh...
resiko terperangkap lebih lama di samsara adalah pilihannya...
tidak ada larangan dalam ajaran Buddha,
sila kita laksanakan karena memiliki pemahaman yg benar.
Buddha sendiri ga melarang kita ke neraka avici kok ;)
soal batas 7x saya kurang tau...
-
+:
akusala = tidak bermanfaat...
bukan "garuka" = berat...
menurutku seh akusala kamma itu udah makanan sehari penghuni samsara kok, nothing special :)
-
[at] tesla : betul sekali....... karena akusala itu sudah makanan sehari-hari, jadi sebenarnya lepas jubah itu sendiri dalam hakekat sesungguhnya, adalah sesuatu yang wajar.....
justru yang menarik, adalah bagaimana sikap kita dalam menanggapi hal, yang sesungguhnya adalah sesuatu yang wajar itu?? ;)
disitulah justru akan diuji bagaimana sebenarnya tingkat kematangan batin kita, karena kebanyakan orang, ahli dan mahir dalam menilai batin orang lain namun lemah dalam mengetahui kondisi batinnya sendiri......
-
saya sudah bilang di sb sama Ci Lily, walaupun ada acuan jangan dijadikan untuk menghakimi...
mustinya saya tambahkan juga
Anumodana
-
[at] karuna : benernya diatas lu dah tulis yang mirip2 kok.....
Tapi gak apa-apa untuk membuka wawasan, jangan jadikan posting ini untuk menilai orang, untuk menghakimi orang lain...
semuanya saling asah asih dan asuh, bro........ :D
-
Menjawab pertanyaan Ci Lily kenapa saya bilang Bhikkhu lepas jubah selalu akusala kamma...
Sebenarnya saya gak niat posting, karena bisa jadi bahan keributan...
Tapi gak apa-apa untuk membuka wawasan, jangan jadikan posting ini untuk menilai orang, untuk menghakimi orang lain...
http://www.vipassana.info/067-catuma-e1.htm (http://www.vipassana.info/067-catuma-e1.htm)
Anumodana atas postingannya.... _/\_
_/\_ :Lotus:
-
Dear all,
daripada bahas kusala vs akusala, gimana kalau teman2 ada waktu, silakan baca potongan cerita ini, diambil dari The Autobiography of Phra Ajaan Lee
selamat menikmati, sangat menarik...[dijamin menarik!]
aku rasa, hingga saat ini, kisah nyata ini yg membuatku semakin mantap dengan jalur monastik.
ayo, silakan kalau ada yang mau ikutan ;)
bow and respect,
===============================
I questioned myself back and forth like this for several days running until I finally decided to call a halt. If I was going to disrobe, I'd have to make preparations. Other people, before disrobing, got prepared by having clothes made and so forth, but I was going to do it differently. I was going to leave the monkhood in my mind first to see what it would be like.
So late in the quiet of a moonlit night, I climbed up to sit inside the chedi and asked myself, "If I disrobe, what will I do?" I came up with the following story.
If I disrobe, I'll have to apply for a job as a clerk in the Phen Phaag Snuff and Stomach Medicine Company. I had a friend who had disrobed and gotten a job there earning 20 baht a month, so it made sense for me to apply for a job there too. I'd set my mind on being honest and hard-working so that my employer would be satisfied with my work. I was determined that wherever I lived, I'd have to act in such a way that the people I lived with would think highly of me.
As it turned out, the drug company finally hired me at 20 baht a month, the same salary as my friend. I made up my mind to budget my salary so as to have money left over at the end of each month, so I rented a room in the flats owned by Phraya Phakdi in the PratuuNam (Watergate) section of town. The rent was four baht a month. Water, electricity, clothing and food would add up to another eleven baht, leaving me with an extra five baht at the end of each month.
My second year on the job my boss came to like and trust me so much that he raised my salary to 30 baht a month. Taking out my expenses, I was left with 15 baht a month. Finally he was so content with my work that he made me supervisor of all the workers, with a 40 baht salary, plus a cut of the profits, adding up altogether to 50 baht a month. At this point I was feeling very proud of myself, because I was making as much as the District Official back home. And as for my friends back home, I was in a position way above them all. So I decided it was time to get married so that I could take a beautiful young Bangkok bride back home for a visit, which would please my relatives no end.
This was when my plans seemed to take on a little class.
So now that I was going to get married, what sort of person would she be? I made up my mind that the woman I married would have to have the three attributes of a good wife:
1. She'd have to come from a good family.
2. She'd have to be in line for an inheritance.
3. She'd have to be good-looking and have a pleasing manner.
Only if a woman had these three attributes would I be willing to marry her. So I asked myself, "Where are you going to find a woman like this, and how will you get to know her?" This is where things began to get complicated. I tried thinking up all sorts of schemes, but even if I actually did meet such a woman, she wouldn't be interested in me. The women who would be interested in me weren't the sort I'd want to marry. Thinking about this, I'd sometimes heave a heavy sigh, but I wasn't willing to give in.
Finally it occurred to me, "Wealthy people send their daughters to the high-class schools, like the Back Palace School or Mrs. Cole's. Why don't I go have a look around these schools in the morning before classes and in the evening when school lets out?"
So that's what I did, until I noticed an attractive girl, the daughter of a Phraya. The way she walked and the way she dressed really appealed to me. I arranged so that our paths crossed every day. In my hand I carried a little note that I threw down in front of her. The first time, she didn't pay me any attention. Day after day our paths crossed. Sometimes our eyes would meet, sometimes I'd stand in her way, sometimes she'd smile at me. When this happened, I made it a point to have her get my note.
Finally we got to know each other. I made a date for her to skip school the next day so that I could show her around town. As time passed we came to know each other, to like each other, to love each other. We told each other our life stories -- the things that had made us happy and the things that had made us sad -- from the very beginning up to the present. I had a salaried job at no less than 50 baht a month. She had finished the sixth year of secondary school and was the daughter of a very wealthy Phraya. Her looks, her manner and her conduct were everything I had been hoping for.
Finally we agreed to become married secretly. Since we loved each other, I got to sleep with her beforehand. She was a good person, so before we were to be officially married, she told her parents. Furious, they threw her out of the house.
So she came to live with me as my wife. I wasn't too upset by what her parents had done, for I was determined to work my way into their affections.
We went to rent a flat in a better district, the Sra Pathum Watergate area. The rent here was six baht a month. My wife got a job at the same company where I was working, starting out at 20 baht a month, but she soon got a raise to 30 a month. Together, then, we were making 80 a month, which pleased me.
As time passed, my position advanced. My employer trusted me completely, and at times would have me take over his duties in his absence. Both my wife and I were determined to be honest and upright in our dealings with the company, and ultimately our earnings -- our salaries plus my percentage of the profits -- reached 100 a month. At this point I felt I could breathe easy, but my dreams still hadn't been fulfilled.
So I began to buy presents -- good things to eat and other nice things -- to take to my parents-in-law to show my good intentions towards them. After a while they began to show some interest in me, and eventually had us move into their house. At this point I was really pleased: I was sure to be in line for part of the inheritance. But living together for a while revealed certain things about my behavior that rubbed my parents-in-law the wrong way, so in the end they drove us out of the house. We went back to live in a flat, as before.
This was when my wife became pregnant. Not wanting her to do any hard work, I hired a servant woman to look after the house and help with the housework. Hired help in those days was very cheap -- only four baht a month.
As my wife came closer to giving birth, she began to miss work more and more often. I had to keep at my job. One night I sat down to look over our budget. The 100 baht we had once earned was probably as much as we'd ever earn. I had no further hopes for a raise. Our expenses were mounting every day: one baht a month for electricity; 1.50 baht for water; charcoal and rice each at least six baht a month; the help, four baht a month; and on top of it all, the cost of our clothing.
After my wife gave birth, our expenses mounted still higher. She wasn't able to work, so we lost her percentage of the profits. After a while she became ill and missed work for an extended period. My employer cut her salary back to 15 baht a month. Our medical bills rose. My wife's salary wasn't enough for her needs, so she had to cut into mine. My old salary of 50 baht was now completely gone by the end of each month.
In the end, my wife's illness proved fatal. I had to borrow 50 baht from my employer which, along with my own savings of 50, went towards her funeral expenses, which totaled 80 baht. I was then left with 20 baht and a small child to raise.
What was I to do now? Before, I had breathed easily. Now it seemed as if life was closing in on me. I went to see my parents-in-law, but they gave me the cold shoulder. So I hired a wet nurse for the child. The wet nurse was a low-class woman, but she took awfully good care of the child. This led me to feel love and affection towards her, and ultimately she became my second wife.
My new wife had absolutely no education -- she couldn't even read or write. My income at this point was now only 50 baht -- enough just to get by. After a while my new wife became pregnant. I did my best to make sure that she didn't have to do any heavy work, and I did everything I could to be good to her, but I couldn't help feeling a little disappointed that life had turned out so differently from my original plans. After my new wife gave birth, we both helped to raise the children until both my first wife's child and my new wife's child were old enough to feed and take care of themselves.
This was when my new wife started acting funny -- playing favorites, giving all her love and attention to her own child, and none to my first. My first child started coming to complain to me all the time that my new wife had been unfair in this way or that. Sometimes the two children would start fighting. At times I'd come home from work and my first child would run to me with one version of what had happened, my second child would have another version, and my wife still another. I didn't know whom to side with. It was as if I was standing in the middle, and my wife and children were pulling me off in three different directions. My new child wanted me to buy this or that -- eventually my wife and children started competing with one another to see who would get to eat the best food, wear the best clothes and squander the most money. It got so that I couldn't sit down and talk with any of them at all. My salary was being eaten up every month; my family life was like falling into a thorn patch.
Finally I decided to call a halt. My wife wasn't what I had hoped for, my earnings weren't what I had hoped for, my children weren't what I had hoped for, so I left my wife, was re-ordained and returned to the contemplative life.
When I came to the end of the story, my interest in worldly affairs vanished. The sense that life was closing in on me disappeared. I felt as free as if I were up floating in the sky. Something inside me sighed, "Ah!" with relief. I told myself that if this was the way things would be, I'd do better not to disrobe. My old desire to disrobe was reduced about 50 to 60 percent.
-
:'( :'( :'( aku engak ngerti
samanera.....
-
cerita ajahn lee itu emang mantep tuh.. ;)
-
Memang seru cerita Ajahn Lee tersebut _/\_
-
:'( :'( :'( aku engak ngerti
samanera.....
waduh, ada yg bisa bantu terjemahin? sy belum ada waktu buat terjemahinnya, maklum tugas periksa (edit) naskah menumpuk, ini aja sempat2kan waktu utk melongok forum. silakan ada yg mau bantu, dengan senang hati.
bow and respect,
-
jadi keluarganya ditinggal begitu saja?
-
Oh, itu cerita imajinasi beliau ketika mau lepas jubah.
-
Terjemahannya ada di Link : http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php/topic,1295.0.html
-
Lepas jubah itu sepertinya tidak dibatasi maksimal 7x. Tapi emang kejadian di Sutta (yang pernah saya baca), maksimal adalah 7x, yang dilakukan oleh Cittahattha. Kisah itu yang membuat Buddha Gotama mengucapkan Dhammapada 38 & 39.
Cittahatthi ini dikatakan harus mengalami kesusahan demikian, sebab dalam salah satu kehidupan lampau, dia pernah menganjurkan kawan Bhikkhunya lepas jubah, karena dia sendiri ingin memiliki barang2 milik kawannya itu.
Kamma buruk atau tidak bukan selalu diukur dari tindakan (seperti melepas jubah). Kadang orang menjadi bhikkhu bukan untuk mengikis kekotoran bathin, tapi demi keuntungan lainnya, juga merupakan kamma buruk. Jika seseorang sudah berusaha semampunya dan memang tidak berhasil, maka melepas jubah juga bukan sesuatu yang jelek.
-
bukannya ada di vinaya yah ?
-
Secara pastinya saya tidak tahu. Tetapi pada aturan lepas jubah dan ingin ditahbiskan kembali, tidak ditulis ada batasannya sebanyak 7x. Kemudian dari setiap akan dilakukannya pentahbisan ulang, calon bhikkhu itu harus mengerti kesalahannya yang dilakukan dahulu sehingga menyebabkan lepas jubah.
Lalu untuk pentahbisan ulang, sepertinya tidak berlaku untuk yang pernah melakukan Parajika, ataupun Sanhadisesa sampai dikeluarkan dari Sangha.
-
Tesla :"akusala = tidak bermanfaat..."
Mksdn anda disni bhikku yg lepas baju hal tsb tdk bermanfaatkah???Mohon anda jelaskan secara rinci
_/\_
Kemudian kepada karuna_murti:"Kesimpulan yang saya ambil mengapa seorang yang lepas jubah selalu akusala :
Karena 4 alasan di atas.
Seseorang yang dengan alasan mulia meninggalkan kehidupan duniawi, menjalankan kehidupan suci kemudian ke kehidupan duniawi, merupakan akusala
seseorang yang punya perhatian penuh meninggalkan perhatian penuh, akusala."
Apakah alasannya ini logis??
APakah setiap lepas jubah dikatakan akusala kamma???
_/\_
-
Tesla :"akusala = tidak bermanfaat..."
Mksdn anda disni bhikku yg lepas baju hal tsb tdk bermanfaatkah???Mohon anda jelaskan secara rinci
suatu perbuatan dalam Buddhisme tidak dikategorikan benar ataupun salah, melainkan kusala ataupun akusala
kusala maksudnya adalah bermanfaat, membawa ke pencerahan,
sebaliknya akusala maksudnya adalah tidak bermanfaat, menjauhkan dari pencerahan.
menukar kehidupan suci ke kehidupan perumah tangga dikatakan akusala,
karena menjauhkan diri dari pencerahan,
kemunduran bathin,
dan memasuki kondisi yg lebih buruk utk mencapai pencerahan.
yg pengen menjalani kehidupan suci tetapi terbelenggu kehidupan rumah tangga, mohon sharing...
*lirik administrator forum ini :whistle:
_/\_
-
suatu perbuatan dalam Buddhisme tidak dikategorikan benar ataupun salah, melainkan kusala ataupun akusala
kusala maksudnya adalah bermanfaat, membawa ke pencerahan,
sebaliknya akusala maksudnya adalah tidak bermanfaat, menjauhkan dari pencerahan.
menukar kehidupan suci ke kehidupan perumah tangga dikatakan akusala,
karena menjauhkan diri dari pencerahan,
kemunduran bathin,
dan memasuki kondisi yg lebih buruk utk mencapai pencerahan.
Setuju,tapi apakah benar2 akusala kamma??
Memang secara yg dikatakan anda memang menjauhkan dr menuju pencerahan.Tetapi apakah dengan begitu dikatakan akusala kamma???
Bukankah jika org yg melepaskan jubah,msh bisa memberikan konstribusi kepada umat awam???
Bagaimana pun dia pasti mengerti ttg Dhamma,krn dia mantan bhikkhu...
Mohon pendptnya...
_/\_
-
yah... akusala itu artinya yah sekedar tidak bermanfaat utk pencerahan, kemajuan bathin, dll...
kalau diartikan melakukan tindakan kejahatan, tentu saja tidak ^-^
-
yah... akusala itu artinya yah sekedar tidak bermanfaat utk pencerahan, kemajuan bathin, dll...
kalau diartikan melakukan tindakan kejahatan, tentu saja tidak ^-^
Kalau diartikan melakukan tindakan kejahatan??Mksd tesla(maaf Tesla ce/co??)Tar salah panggil mau panggil ci2/ko2,tar kek kejadian ci2 mushroom... ;D
_/\_
-
tindakan kejahatan itu maksud saya adalah perbuatan yg kalau di bidang hukum dapat membawa pelakunya berakhir di penjara ^-^
NB: tesla laki-laki
-
oWh...thanks ko2 tesla,Byk2 posting pertanyaan gw ya...
Thanks banget...
_/\_
-
Ok. itu kalo untuk bhikkhu yg lepas jubah. kl bhikkhuni yg lepas jubah gimana?? apa tidak boleh masuk Sangha lagi? Soalnya yg saya denger kl bhikkhuni cuma boleh masuk Sangha 1x seumur hidup :-? bener nggak sih? ???
-
Dear All,
Saya adalah newbie di forum ini.
Mau minta saran. saya ada teman yg sudah jd biksu dan sudah ditahbiskan. Lalu sekarang dia mau lepas jubah dan menikah dengan mantannya. Apakah seorang biksu yang sudah ditahbiskan dan disumpah, lalu menikah (yang artinya melanggar sumpah), akan mendapat karma dan hukuman pada dirinya dan keturunannya? Mohon petunjuk dari umat sedharma sekalian.
Sie2.
-
Dear All,
Saya adalah newbie di forum ini.
Mau minta saran. saya ada teman yg sudah jd biksu dan sudah ditahbiskan. Lalu sekarang dia mau lepas jubah dan menikah dengan mantannya.
sesudah lepas jubah, baru menikah dengan siapa aja, silahkan.
Apakah seorang biksu yang sudah ditahbiskan dan disumpah, lalu menikah (yang artinya melanggar sumpah),
menikah itu melanggar Vinaya bila masih status masih biksu
bila sudah lepas jubah, tidak ada pelanggaran lagi
akan mendapat karma dan hukuman pada dirinya dan keturunannya? Mohon petunjuk dari umat sedharma sekalian.
Sie2.
tidak ada 'siapapun' yang akan menghukum dia dan keturunannya, karena lepas jubah dari biksu
karena sudah sebagai umat awam tentunya boleh menikah.
-
Dear All,
Saya adalah newbie di forum ini.
Mau minta saran. saya ada teman yg sudah jd biksu dan sudah ditahbiskan. Lalu sekarang dia mau lepas jubah dan menikah dengan mantannya. Apakah seorang biksu yang sudah ditahbiskan dan disumpah, lalu menikah (yang artinya melanggar sumpah), akan mendapat karma dan hukuman pada dirinya dan keturunannya? Mohon petunjuk dari umat sedharma sekalian.
Sie2.
Setahu saya, jadi bhiksu sumpahnya bukan untuk tidak lepas jubah, tapi untuk mengikuti peraturan sebagai petapa selama menjadi bhiksu. Jika dia ternyata tidak ingin meneruskan, lepas jubah dan kembali menjadi umat awam, sama sekali tidak ada masalah. Yang berpotensi pada karma (sangat) buruk adalah melanggar peraturan-peraturan pertapaan selagi masih jadi seorang bhiksu.
-
bagaimana dgn berita yg boleh lepas jubah max 7 kali ?
-
bagaimana dgn berita yg boleh lepas jubah max 7 kali ?
memang benar ada
-
Setahu saya, jadi bhiksu sumpahnya bukan untuk tidak lepas jubah, tapi untuk mengikuti peraturan sebagai petapa selama menjadi bhiksu. Jika dia ternyata tidak ingin meneruskan, lepas jubah dan kembali menjadi umat awam, sama sekali tidak ada masalah. Yang berpotensi pada karma (sangat) buruk adalah melanggar peraturan-peraturan pertapaan selagi masih jadi seorang bhiksu.
Terima kasih atas info nya... jadi sumpah tersebut adalah sumpah selama jadi biksu? setelah lepas dari kebiksuan, kembali menjadi umat awam, sumpah tersebut sudah tidak melekat?
-
sesudah lepas jubah, baru menikah dengan siapa aja, silahkan.
menikah itu melanggar Vinaya bila masih status masih biksu
bila sudah lepas jubah, tidak ada pelanggaran lagi
tidak ada 'siapapun' yang akan menghukum dia dan keturunannya, karena lepas jubah dari biksu
karena sudah sebagai umat awam tentunya boleh menikah.
Terima kasih atas infonya.. :) _/\_
-
Dear All,
Saya adalah newbie di forum ini.
Mau minta saran. saya ada teman yg sudah jd biksu dan sudah ditahbiskan. Lalu sekarang dia mau lepas jubah dan menikah dengan mantannya. Apakah seorang biksu yang sudah ditahbiskan dan disumpah, lalu menikah (yang artinya melanggar sumpah), akan mendapat karma dan hukuman pada dirinya dan keturunannya? Mohon petunjuk dari umat sedharma sekalian.
Sie2.
Setahu saya, jadi bhiksu sumpahnya bukan untuk tidak lepas jubah, tapi untuk mengikuti peraturan sebagai petapa selama menjadi bhiksu. Jika dia ternyata tidak ingin meneruskan, lepas jubah dan kembali menjadi umat awam, sama sekali tidak ada masalah. Yang berpotensi pada karma (sangat) buruk adalah melanggar peraturan-peraturan pertapaan selagi masih jadi seorang bhiksu.
Terima kasih atas info nya... jadi sumpah tersebut adalah sumpah selama jadi biksu? setelah lepas dari kebiksuan, kembali menjadi umat awam, sumpah tersebut sudah tidak melekat berlaku?