Critic About Buddhaghosa

[Sumedho]

tadi ada cari2x email bhante S Dhammika, pas ketemu bagian ini

---------
http://www.answers.com/topic/buddhaghosa

....
Australian Buddhist monastic Shravasti Dhammika writes: "Even Buddhaghosa did not really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana. His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a detailed step by step guide to enlightenment. And yet in the postscript he says he hopes that the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment." [27] Dhammika believes there is a contradiction in Buddhaghosa's position; Buddhaghosa has compiled what is intended to a complete an authoritative guide to gaining enlightenment through the practice of the teachings of the Pali Canon, but seems to desire for himself the option of being taught in person by a Buddha rather than claiming he will be enlightened by the practices set forth in the Visuddhimagga. Shravasti Dhammika interprets this as indicating that Buddhaghosa does not believe that following the practice set forth in the Visuddhimagga will really lead him to Nirvana. Devotion to Maitreya was common in South Asia from early in the Buddhist era, and is believed to have been particularly popular during Buddhaghosa's era.[28][29]

-------

any comment?

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

Bagian itu bukan Bhadantacariya Buddhagosa yang menulis, melainkan ditambahkan belakangan oleh editor dari Myanmar.

[Sumedho]

the merit he has earned by writing the Vishuddhimagga will allow him to be reborn in heaven, abide there until Metteyya (Maitreya) appears, hear his teaching and then attain enlightenment."

ini nya?

bisa liat dimana oom?

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

Menurut seorang Bhante, ada beberapa versi. Yang gak konsisten cuma bagian itu.

[Sumedho]

source dunk, we need source the clear this up

[Indra]

Dalam kapasitas apakah Dhammika menilai keyakinan Buddhaghosa dan Theravada?

untung Ananda berhasil jadi Arahat, kalo gak si Dhammika ini akan bilang, "Bahkan Ananda juga tidak berhasil mencapai Nibbana melalui Theravada."

Saya melihat ini hanyalah usaha Dhammika untuk  menggeser posisi Buddhaghosa sebagai orang besar. sayangnya untuk ini Dhammika bahkan harus menggeser Gachapin dulu

secara tersirat Dhammika juga mengatakan bahwa Buddhaghosa adalah pengikut aliran Maitreya. alamak...

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

Permasalahannya ini Bhante postingannya ada di forum yang kena hack jadi kagak bisa diakses.
Ato coba aja dari facebooknya, gw pm dah.

[char101]

[The following verses are only in Sinhalese texts:]

By the performance of such merit
As has been gained by me through this
And any other still in hand
So may I in my next becoming
Behold the joys of Tavatimsa,
Glad in the qualities of virtue
And unattached to sense desires.
By having reached the first fruition,
And having in my last life seen
Metteyya, Lord of Sages, Highest
Of persons in the World, and Helper
Delighting in all beings' welfare,
And heart that Holy One proclaim
The Teaching of the Noble Dhamma,
May I grace the Victor's Dispensation
By realizing its highest fruit

[Indra]

[The following verses are only in Sinhalese texts:]

tuh kan, si mika harus belajar sejarah dulu sebelum tergesa2 menarik kesimpulan

[Sumedho]

answers.com itu ambil dari wikipedia tuh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhaghosa

aye lagi cari email bhante dhammika sekalian mau tanya ini jga nih

[char101]

Postscript Visuddhimagga itu kalau dibaca sepertinya ditulis oleh orang lain soalnya menggunakan kata ganti orang ketiga

This Path of Purification was made by the elder who is adorned with supreme and pure faith, wisdom and energy, in whom are gathered a concourse of upright, gentle, etc., qualities due to the pratice of virtue, who is capable of delving into and fathoming the views of his own and other's creeds,...

Kritik bhiksu (bhiksu apa bhikkhu) ini lebih baik dilihat dari konteks paragraf sebelumnya dari artikel yang ditulisnya

The original purpose of the Sangha was to provide the optimal environment for attaining Nirvana
and to have a body of people capable of disseminating the Dhamma. In Theravada at least, it has
long ceased to be of much value for these noble ends. In Sri Lanka it is widely believed that it is not
possible to become enlightened anymore and it’s not just simple folk who believe this either. I once
attended a talk by the famous Narada Thera of Vajirarama in Colombo during which he said that it
is even impossible to become a sotapanna today. Richard Gombrich found this same idea to be
widely held in Sri Lanka. ‘The comparative rarity of meditation is closely connected with the
widespread belief in the decline of Buddhism. A village girl said that in a Buddha-less period one
must keep trying, but only limited progress is possible. It is further believed by the majority of
monks, at least those whose general attitudes can be described as traditional, that the sasana has
already declined so far that it is no longer possible for men to attain nirvana. This opinion is very
prevalent among the laity…One monk even specified that till (Metteyya) comes it is not even
possible to become a sotapanna. The last arahat is commonly said to have been Maliyadeva (1st cent
B.C.E). Others say that there may still be human arahats, but it is unlikely and/or undiscoverable.
One monk compared the sasana to a worn-out organism; very few can attain nirvana now just as a
tree grows barren when its fruit is picked too often, and the seventh child is weaker than the first.
The average view, perhaps, was that of the monk who said that it was not impossible to attain
nirvana now, but as ‘religious practice’ is weak, it is hard to believe that there is anyone alive who
has become an arahat’(italics in original). *

* These same beliefs are common in Thailand, see Jane Bunnag’s, Buddhist Monks Buddhist Laymen, 1973, 19, ff.

I have heard these same views expressed a thousand times in Sri Lanka. Even Buddhaghosa did not
really believe that Theravada practice could lead to Nirvana. His Visuddhimagga is supposed to be a
detailed, step by step guide to enlightenment....

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

Postscript Visuddhimagga itu kalau dibaca sepertinya ditulis oleh orang lain soalnya menggunakan kata ganti orang ketiga

This Path of Purification was made by the elder who is adorned with supreme and pure faith, wisdom and energy, in whom are gathered a concourse of upright, gentle, etc., qualities due to the pratice of virtue, who is capable of delving into and fathoming the views of his own and other's creeds,...

Yap betul, yang menguatkan kalau itu palsu adalah kata ganti orang yang berbeda dari isi VM lainnya. (lupa)

[Sumedho]

konon katanya teks sinhalese itu lebih tua dan sumber terjemahan dari teks2x bahasa lainnya.
jadi kemungkinan itu bukan dari teks asli sehingga tidak ditranslate ke bahasa lain

 [at] char101: utk post scriptnya itu lanjutannya yg pengharapan itu yah

utk paragraft sebelum kritiknya kekna nda ada pengaruh deh

[char101]

[at] char101: utk post scriptnya itu lanjutannya yg pengharapan itu yah

Pengharapan itu ending postscriptnya. Yang The path of purity was made by the elder itu pertengahan postscript. Pengharapan itu tidak ada di versi Burma, adanya

Thus this discourse, the Path of Purity,
Has been composed good fold to edify
In eight and fifty recitation-texts.

The Book of the Path of Purity is ended.

utk paragraft sebelum kritiknya kekna nda ada pengaruh deh

Kalau saya melihatnya statement Ven. Dhammika ini untuk mendukung pendapatnya di paragraf sebelumnya bahwa zaman sekarang di negara-negara Buddhis penganut Theravada banyak yang tidak percaya kalau orang bisa mencapai tingkat kesucian. Jadi fokusnya bukan isi visuddhimagga itu tidak efektif tapi pada sikap kenapa harus menunggu Buddha Metteya untuk mencapai kesucian.

[Sumedho]

maksudnya efek ke kritiknya tentng buddhoghosa dan visudhimagganya itu loh.