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Offline EVO

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #90 on: 17 December 2007, 03:47:50 PM »
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hebat semuaaaa
kapan yah bisa seperti suhu-suhu ini semua
hebat banget!!!!!!!!=D>

Offline asunn

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #91 on: 17 December 2007, 11:20:27 PM »
gw hanya bisa bengong  :o heheh *bravo2 ...keep uptodate yah :)

Offline Buddhism

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #92 on: 20 December 2007, 07:23:46 PM »
kapan yah gw bisa seperti mereka ?  :'(

Offline Sukma Kemenyan

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #93 on: 09 January 2008, 07:31:07 AM »
Another good reading material about Jhana...

[ Travelogue to the four jhanas - Ajahn Brahmavamso ]


Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #94 on: 09 January 2008, 09:49:03 AM »
Ringkasan perbandingan jhana dari Sutta, Abhidhamma, dan Visuddi Magga : http://www.leighb.com/jhanatrd.ht

Perbandingan jhana menurut guru2 meditasi :
http://www.leighb.com/jhanantp.htm

Dari website di atas banyak artikel-artikel menarik, berikut halaman indexnya : http://www.leighb.com/jhanas.htm

Perkenalan oleh Bhante Nanamoli dalam terjemahan Vissudhi Magga :

Quote
The doctrines (Dhamma) of the Theravada Pali tradition can be conveniently traced in three main layers. (1) The first of these contains the main books of the Pali Sutta Pitaka. (2) The second is the Abhidhamma Pitaka, notably the closely related books, the Dhammasangani, Vibhanga Patthana. (3) The third is the system which the author of the Visuddhimagga completed, or found completed, and which he set himself to edit and translate back into Pali.

.... (details of 1 and 2 omitted for brevity)....

(3) The system found in the Commentaries has moved on (perhaps slightly diverged) from the strict Abhidhamma-Pitaka standpoint. The Suttas offered descriptions of discovery; the Abhidhamma, map-making; but emphasis now is not on discovery, or even on mapping, so much as on consolidating, filling in and explaining. The material is worked over for consistency. Among the principal new developments here are these. The 'Cognitive Series' (citta-?ithi) in the occurrence of the conscious process is organised (see Ch. IV, n. 13 and Table V) and completed, and its association with the three different kinds of kamma is laid down. The term sabhava ('individual-essence', 'own-being' or 'it-ness', see Ch. VII, n.68) is introduced to explain the key word dhamma, thereby submitting that term to ontological criticism, while the samaya ('event' or 'occasion') of the Dhammasangani is now termed a khana ('moment') thus shifting the weight and balance a little in the treatment of time. Then there is the specific ascription of the three instants (khana, too) of Arising, Presence and Dissolution (uppada-tthiti-bhanga), to each 'moment' (Khana), one 'material moment' being calculated to last as long as sixteen 'mental moments' (Ch. XX, Section 24; DhsA.60). New to the Pitakas are also the rather unwieldly enumeration of concepts (pannatti, see Ch. VII, n.11) and the handy defining-formula of Word-meaning, Characteristic, Function, Manifestation and Proximate Cause (Locus); also many minor instances such as the substitution of the specific 'heart-basis' for the Patthana's 'material basis of the mind', the conception of 'material octads' etc. the detailed descriptions of the thirty-two part of the body instead of the bare enumetation of the names in the Suttas (thirty-one in the Four Nikayas and thirty-two in the Khuddaka-patha and the Patisambhidamagga), and many more. And the word paramattha acquires a new and slightly altered currency. The question of how much this process of development owes to the post-Maurian evolution of Saskrit thought on the Indian mainland (either through assimilation or opposition) still remains to be explored, like so many others in this field. The object of this sketch is only to point to a few landmarks

Seperti yang sudah saya post sebelumnya :

Kalau dari sudut pandang Theravada :

1. Sutta : tanpa kesalahan dan sifatnya otoritatif
2. Suttānuloma : referensi dalam Sutta, otoritatif jika sesuai dengan empat kriteria besar (ada di Sutta dan Vinaya) dalam Mahaparinibanna Sutta

"In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word, one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the Discipline. If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. But if the sentences concerned are traceable in the Discourses and verifiable by the Discipline, then one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is the Blessed One's utterance; this has been well understood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' And in that way, bhikkhus, you may accept it on the first, second, third, or fourth reference. These, bhikkhus, are the four great references for you to preserve."

3. Atthakathā : kitab komentar, otoritatif kecuali bertentangan dengan Sutta dan Suttānuloma
4. Attanomati : pendapat pribadi seorang guru, vinayadhara, dhammakatikha, dll tidak disetujui atau ditolak, tapi ditimbang dengan no. 1, 2, dan 3. Sepertinya Tika dan Anutika masuk kriteria ke 4

Vissudhi Magga masuk ke dalam kategori ke 3
HANYA MENERIMA UCAPAN TERIMA KASIH DALAM BENTUK GRP
Fake friends are like shadows never around on your darkest days

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #95 on: 09 January 2008, 01:24:52 PM »
Another good reading material about Jhana...

[ Travelogue to the four jhanas - Ajahn Brahmavamso ]



ini potongan dari tulisan tersebut yang mungkin bisa di highlight tentang nimitta


Quote
If you calm the physical feeling of breath down, the mental feeling of breath starts to arise -- the samadhi nimitta -- usually a light which appears in the mind. However, it can sometimes just appear to be a physical feeling. It can be a deep peacefulness; it can even be like a blackness. The actual description of it is very wide simply because the description is that which everyone adds on to a core experience, which is a mental experience. When it starts to arise you just haven't got the words to describe it. So what we add to it is usually how we understand it to ourselves. Darkness, peacefulness, profound stillness, emptiness, a beautiful light or whatever. Don't particularly worry about what type of nimitta it actually is.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2008, 01:37:06 PM by Sumedho »
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Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #96 on: 09 January 2008, 03:37:46 PM »
Nah ini dia, yg saya mo nanya berdasarkan pengalaman saya, kalau memang bukan nimitta as light /kristal atau dapat berupa rasa damai dan blackness dll.

Berarti kita mengetahui jhana karena munculnya faktor2 jhana dalam tiap jhana yg dicapai.

Hal yg saya pernah rasakan bahwa tidak ada nimita berbentuk cahaya ataupun kristal , tapi saya merasakan vitaka,vicara, piti ,suka dan ekagata dgn kuat--peaceful and blackness. Dan pernah beberapa kali merasakan ekagata dan upekha. Masalahnya apakah itu sudah jhana?ini saya belum ngerti...Dan apa yg pernah saya ketahui dalam upacara samadhi juga terdapat faktor jhana 1 tapi tidkalah kuat. nah lalu yg benar2 menjadi patokannya apa?

Tetapi dalam hal ini saya dapat memahami dengan jelas apa itu vitaka, vicara, piti,suka dan ekagata dan upekha. Walaupun saya kadang sulit mengutarakannya. Dan sampai sekarang saya masih bertanya pada diri saya sendiri apakah ini jhana? dan saya  sendiri masih belum yakin bahwa ini jhana.

Dan pengalaman tadi terjadi pada saat saya masih SMA dan belum mempelajari Ajaran Sang Buddha.Dan objeknya adalah Alo kasina.Dan sempat juga nimitta Alo itu muncul dan begitu saya buka mata, sudah dua jam meditasi, dan ini baru saya ketahui jhana 1 setelah baca literatur yg ada. Dan karena kesibukan kerja dan lain,sempat vakum meditasi intensif selam 7 tahun, dan sekarang baru memulainya lagi dgn objek anapanasati _/\_
« Last Edit: 09 January 2008, 03:51:16 PM by bond »
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #97 on: 09 January 2008, 03:53:22 PM »
konon sih kalo ada ke 5 faktor itu yah sudah jhana om
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Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #98 on: 09 January 2008, 04:01:29 PM »
Saya hanya yakin itu jhana satu ketika yg muncul nimittanya disertai 5 faktor jhana. kalau yg sangat tenang dan damai beserta 5 faktor jhana saya masih ragu, apakah ini baru upacara samadhi atau jhana..?apalagi ketika hanya merasakan ekagata dan upekha saja setelah proses 5 faktor jhana berjalan, masih sangat sangata ragu itu jhana 4.
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #99 on: 09 January 2008, 04:07:26 PM »
merasakan ekagatan dan upekkha nya ketika meditasi ?
btw dalam ciri2x jhana 4, nafas berhenti juga
« Last Edit: 09 January 2008, 04:09:31 PM by Sumedho »
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Offline tesla

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #100 on: 09 January 2008, 06:03:47 PM »
Quote
If you calm the physical feeling of breath down, the mental feeling of breath starts to arise -- the samadhi nimitta -- usually a light which appears in the mind. However, it can sometimes just appear to be a physical feeling. It can be a deep peacefulness; it can even be like a blackness. The actual description of it is very wide simply because the description is that which everyone adds on to a core experience, which is a mental experience. When it starts to arise you just haven't got the words to describe it. So what we add to it is usually how we understand it to ourselves. Darkness, peacefulness, profound stillness, emptiness, a beautiful light or whatever. Don't particularly worry about what type of nimitta it actually is.

seph... jadi tambah semangat :)

tapi apa itu bukan piti ya?
Lepaskan keserakahan akan kesenangan. Lihatlah bahwa melepaskan dunia adalah kedamaian. Tidak ada sesuatu pun yang perlu kau raup, dan tidak ada satu pun yang perlu kau dorong pergi. ~ Buddha ~

Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #101 on: 09 January 2008, 07:00:52 PM »
merasakan ekagatan dan upekkha nya ketika meditasi ?
btw dalam ciri2x jhana 4, nafas berhenti juga

Makanya saya sangat2 ragu karena setelah melewati sukha yg luar biasa, timbul rasa sukha biasa aja dan saya meninggalkannya. baru muncul perasaan itu tapi rasanya masih ada nafas :)) dan duduknya ngak lebih dari dua jam, saya hanya berpikir seperti yg Sayalay katakan, bisa kepleset ke bhavanga dimana ada rasa tenang dan damai yg mungkin saya pikir itu ekagata dan upekkha. _/\_
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #102 on: 09 January 2008, 07:09:57 PM »
Quote
If you calm the physical feeling of breath down, the mental feeling of breath starts to arise -- the samadhi nimitta -- usually a light which appears in the mind. However, it can sometimes just appear to be a physical feeling. It can be a deep peacefulness; it can even be like a blackness. The actual description of it is very wide simply because the description is that which everyone adds on to a core experience, which is a mental experience. When it starts to arise you just haven't got the words to describe it. So what we add to it is usually how we understand it to ourselves. Darkness, peacefulness, profound stillness, emptiness, a beautiful light or whatever. Don't particularly worry about what type of nimitta it actually is.

seph... jadi tambah semangat :)

tapi apa itu bukan piti ya?
Yg diatas hanya menjelaskan nimitta bentuk(light) dan non bentuk(perasaan)
Kalau bro yg muncul hanya seperti yg ditulis diatas itu hanya piti, tetapi bila bro merasakan /mengetahui dengan sendirinya ada vitaka,vicara,sukha ,pitti dan ekagata singkatnya ada 5 faktor jhana maka itu jhana. Tapi perlu diingat jika faktor itu tidak stabil maka itu baru upacara samadhi aja. Tapi kalo dia menetap terus, stabil dalam waktu lama itu jhana.
Nah waktu latihan jgn evaluasi apa2 terhadap apa yg kita rasakan , pikirkan just focus and realize it.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2008, 07:13:55 PM by bond »
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline andry

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #103 on: 10 January 2008, 01:01:51 PM »
abang bond, setahu saya nimita tidak selalu bentuk kristal or cahaya.. itu semua tergantung dari objek jaman dahulu bgt.. sebelum anda lahir di dunia ini.. biasanya yg kristal objek pada hidup lampaunya kasina...
namun nimita tiap org beda2 tergantung mm perangai kali yah..
dan setahu saya juga.. kalo  udah cerap jhana 1 , semua indra udah tutup.. plg gampang, u  udah gak denger apa2..
itu aja patokannya..
tapi harus ehipasiko seh.. jgn u percaya aja.. kata2 gue.. siapa tahu kata2 wo gombal belaka.. kan nda ada yg tahu...
selamat ber jhana ria... ;D
Samma Vayama

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #104 on: 10 January 2008, 01:36:19 PM »
Quote
If you calm the physical feeling of breath down, the mental feeling of breath starts to arise -- the samadhi nimitta -- usually a light which appears in the mind. However, it can sometimes just appear to be a physical feeling. It can be a deep peacefulness; it can even be like a blackness. The actual description of it is very wide simply because the description is that which everyone adds on to a core experience, which is a mental experience. When it starts to arise you just haven't got the words to describe it. So what we add to it is usually how we understand it to ourselves. Darkness, peacefulness, profound stillness, emptiness, a beautiful light or whatever. Don't particularly worry about what type of nimitta it actually is.

seph... jadi tambah semangat :)

tapi apa itu bukan piti ya?
Yg diatas hanya menjelaskan nimitta bentuk(light) dan non bentuk(perasaan)
Kalau bro yg muncul hanya seperti yg ditulis diatas itu hanya piti, tetapi bila bro merasakan /mengetahui dengan sendirinya ada vitaka,vicara,sukha ,pitti dan ekagata singkatnya ada 5 faktor jhana maka itu jhana. Tapi perlu diingat jika faktor itu tidak stabil maka itu baru upacara samadhi aja. Tapi kalo dia menetap terus, stabil dalam waktu lama itu jhana.
Nah waktu latihan jgn evaluasi apa2 terhadap apa yg kita rasakan , pikirkan just focus and realize it.

bukan membandingkan sama jhana, bond. apakah piti itu sendiri termasuk nimitta?
Lepaskan keserakahan akan kesenangan. Lihatlah bahwa melepaskan dunia adalah kedamaian. Tidak ada sesuatu pun yang perlu kau raup, dan tidak ada satu pun yang perlu kau dorong pergi. ~ Buddha ~