The worst people can become monks. Why is that?
When the master permits, worst can become best. That is Mahayana Buddhism. The worst passions, the worst bonno become the source of satori. When ice melts it produces a lot of water. Great bonno, great passions are transformed into great satori. A great master must transform them and shows his dimension by doing so.
Don't you think it is harder to be a Zen monk today in a big city than it was two thousand years ago in a Zen monastery?
Harder, easier, it depends on the person. People come to practice zazen here for one hour and afterward go out to live their lives ... If you went to a monastery all you would think about would be getting out of it. I want to go to the restaurant, I want to go see a woman, or my friends, etc." People always have doubts in their heads. Which is harder? The monks who live at Soji-ji or Eihei-ji are always wanting to make love at night, and they stay there only three months. But for an older person, retiring to a monastery, escaping from the world, is not so difficult. When a young man enters a monastery he soon wants to leave again; that's all he thinks about. Even at a sesshin lasting only a few days, like the one we had at Lodéve, some people were forever counting how much time was left until the end. What is easier is to practice zazen for an hour in the morning, or even twice a day, and be free the rest of the time. That's better! For the Japanese monks zazen is a business, a profession. But you, now, you want to practice zazen, so zazen is always fresh for you, it is not a business. When zazen becomes a business the true religious spirit dies. Some people run away as soon as they cut off their hair. To the very minute of ordination they say, "I want to be a monk. Then they start thinking and they go away. Half of the people who become monks stop practicing zazen as soon as they're ordained. But life in a temple is very hard. You are always, always alone. And when you cut yourself off from society you become egotistical: you want to be calm all the time and practice zazen alone in the mountains! That's fine during the sesshins, but it is hardly possible to go on that way for ever. People give up. So I say that zazen must be like the drop of rain. Otherwise, as soon as a person has become a monk he does not want to be one anymore. To be a Bodhisattva is not the same as being a monk; It means wanting to become one. Being a monk means reaching the last station, the terminus. But it is better to make the trip than to arrive.
How far does the commitment of a bodhisattva go?
That question comes up very often. When you get married, it's the same thing. Sometimes it is necessary for a person to have a law, a limit, an ethic. We are not the same as animals. In Buddhism and Zen, ordination is not a commitment. When you have been ordained, and if you continue to practice, even if you want to make mistakes, you cannot. When you received ordination, your karma is transformed. Even if you want to make something wrong, you cannot workout any enthusiasm about it. That happens automatically and naturally. It is not a deliberate undertaking. I don't think it is the same in Christianity; but it is my belief that a true religious ordination does not entails prohibitions. You automatically become unable to do wrong, and even if you continue to do wrong for a time, the desire quickly dwindles. Through the body's actions the passions diminish unconsciously. There is no need to think one way or another way. True freedom! You can follow the cosmic order unconsciously, naturally, automatically, During the ordination ceremony, I never say "you must do this you must not do that..." I give the ordination and you receive it; Your karma changes automatically. Zen ordination is not a legal undertaking. Of course you should not kill or steal or misbehave sexually or lie. Not lying is very hard. Not killing a mosquito is hard too. And you should not admire yourself or criticize others In Buddhism there are ten precepts, but they are not prohibitions. Buddha said, "If you practice zazen that is the greatest precept, and everything else vanishes." If you practice zazen your karma changes, everything gets better. The people who are drawn toward evil go away. The people who continue to practice become very good. If they make mistakes they become aware of them, or else they go away and stop practicing.
Can you explain the role of the bodhisattva in modern life?
There are no limits. If I were to explain, you would be tempted to limit the role of the bodhisattva to what I had said. Every day you must find out the duties of a bodhisattva. They are not the kind of duties that come from a religious commandment. What you have to do is leap into the river to help those who are drowning, leap into the dangerous places. That is the bodhisattva's vocation. Leap into difficulties, not run away from them. It's very hard. That is what the bodhisattva does to help others. First give food and water to others, only afterward to yourself. "Please, you experience satori," says the bodhisattva. "I am going to help you to have that experience at any price, and afterward I shall try to have it myself."
Why does one never hear about women Buddhas?
Yes, yes, they exist. Many women have become disciples of Buddha, and quite often a master has been taught by an older woman. In the Asia of old, however, it was customary not to record a woman's name even if she was a source of wisdom and taught a master. Nowadays all that has changed; men and women are on an equal footing and a woman can perfectly well become a master. Kannon is often represented as a woman; but in fact Kannon is beyond gender. Neither man nor woman: that is Mahayana Buddhism. Buddha's teaching is for men and women alike, and is beyond both. The distinction between masculine and feminine is a great problem for me in the French language. In Japanese the distinction does not exist for nouns the way it does in French; why la Seine and le Rhone? Why not le Seine and la Rhone? I find it very funny, comical. Maybe because the course of the Seine is softer, more feminine than that of the Rhone? Buddha is beyond he - Buddha or she - Buddha! Oriental languages do not make that kind of category. The East did not create science, but it also did not set limits on religion. The same sentence, infinite in Chinese or Japanese, becomes full of categories in a Western language. Philosophy is very highly developed in the West, but it is all categories. Nietzsche came to a dead end; he said that people must embrace contradictions but he himself got tangled up in them and died insane.
What is the meaning of the kesa?
Dogen wrote two long texts on the subject of the kesa. Zazen is the spiritual essence of Zen, and the kesa is its material essence. In Christianity, in Buddhism, people respect the Cross or statues and images of Buddha. In Zen, it's the kesa. People want objects of faith. There has to be something visible. What is the best material? Buddha thought about it and so have the masters. Clothes are often important. How to dress? That's why there are fashions, like the Parisian fashions that travel all over the world. So in Zen, too, clothes are important: the white robe we wear is Japanese, the black robe is Chinese; the kesa is Indian. It is very important. It is the symbol of Buddha, like statues. But I like the kesa better than statues. What is the symbol of the spiritual life? A disciple asked the Buddha that question and so the kesa was created. The seams represent rice paddies. You must use the most ordinary cloth. To make the first kesas people gathered winding sheets or shrouds, the clothes used for women in childbirth, menstrual napkins, whatever had been soiled and nobody wanted anymore and was going to be thrown out. The pieces were washed and disinfected with ashes, assembled and sewn together, and became the monk's clothing, the highest clothing. The basest material became the purest garment, because everybody respects the monk's robe and kesa. The basest material becomes the most pure: that is the whole foundation of Mahayana. It's the same thing with our mind, our bonno. You don't need to look on the outside, only inside. If you look at yourself you will see that you're not so wonderful. Everybody is full of contradictions. In the Hokyo Zanmai it says, "A rat in a hole and a tethered horse may be standing quietly, but inside they are longing to escape." It's the same with our minds during zazen. They're always looking for something. It's the same for me, and even for great masters. Buddha, too, suffered from this problem. It is the weakness of mankind. Through zazen you can direct and regulate your mind. If the rat is weak it quickly dies. It's like the story of the taming of the shrew. If the mind is well-guided it can be changed. A weak person cannot become great. It is better to be strong and have strong illusions. If we have great illusions we will have a great Satori. The basest clothes become the symbol of the highest spirituality. That is the principle of Mahayana. There are enormous contradictions in the human race. The forebrain and thalamus have conflicting functions. If we have a purely intellectual approach to life we are assailed by contradictions and are always suffering. The kesa is very important; wearing it helps us and changes our karma, just like zazen. It is a symbol, and I believe in it. It is the symbol of my master. So I wear this kesa and am unafraid. For me it is the transmission of my master. What is lowest becomes most high. Our worst mind becomes best, highest, most noble.
Why do great masters like Dogen or Nagarjuna, masters who practice mushotoku, treat the kesa as an object of veneration when they grow old, and study and write books about it?
The kesa is the essence of Buddhism, the symbol of the Buddha. Buddha gave a talk, attended by all his disciples, and at the end he picked a flower and turned it in his hand, and nobody understood except Mahakasyapa, who smiled. It was to him that Buddha transmitted his kesa, because Mahakasyapa had understood his spirit. He transmitted his kesa to him as the symbol of the true satori. Visible and material symbols of the Dharma are necessary. Shiki soku ze ku, ku soku ze shiki: emptiness becomes form and vice versa. The kesa is the highest material symbol. Nowadays monks in Japan don't shave their heads anymore and hardly ever wear their kolomo. They bring it along for ceremonies in a suitcase, like actors. But the rakusui or kesa remains the symbol that divides profane from sacred. It is the symbol of the sanghai, the community of people who practice zazen. If I die it is not necessary to respect my person but it is necessary to respect my kesa, which is my true spirit, my satori, the Dharmai itself. Studying the kesa is a great koan, the fundamental essence of the transmitted teaching, even if its shape and color have changed in the course of time.
What is the importance of the master in Zen? Can a disciple lead a dojo?
If there is no master, the disciple is like a blind man walking without anything to guide him. Dogen wrote about the absolute necessity for a master. If you practiced zazen without a master you would make mistakes. If you make mistakes your mind will go off the rails, a little bit or a lot. For beginners it is very difficult, and then they don't understand. I have taught you what consciousness is in the Zen of Master Dogen. I have explained from the very start what it means. If you follow a master your consciousness becomes more and more profound. The disciples who have been following me for a long time understand, by listening to me, and they are becoming more profound. Disciples may open a dojo if I give them permission. They represent the master.
How important is the dojo? Is it just to come see the master?
Why the master? I can practice zazen alone, myself. There is only one master and many students. You and me and everybody. The master is alone and he has many disciples. I need every one of you. Do not pay attention to the others. Only you and me. But I have to see everybody and you have only to look at me. It is hard to practice zazen alone in your home because I cannot go visit you there. I understand your question. Atmosphere is very important. There is an interdependence among all the people who practice, a reciprocal influence. If you are alone and I am alone here, the atmosphere would not be the same. If there is only one log in the fireplace the fire will not be strong. If there are a lot of logs the fire catches quickly. Today there was a very strong atmosphere, lots of logs blazing away. A wonderful fire. That is why the dojo is important. You can feel intense activity in it, but you feel it unconsciously. You don't need to think, "I am influencing other people," "I am being influenced by other people." It happens unconsciously. If you don't want to practice zazen, I don't care. If you do want to practice, then you follow the cosmic life and I follow you. If nobody came (maybe a few people would continue at home), I myself could not practice zazen; it would be hard for me. I have been practicing for forty years now. I have tried to practice alone. I did it for a month or two. I am very sincere, and I like zazen very much; but it was extremely hard. Sometimes in my room, when I have been writing, I practice zazen unconsciously in front of my desk. If you go to the dojo unconsciously you follow the cosmic order.
When a person wants to practice zazen, does he or she always need a master?
Yes; at first it is necessary. A proper master. If you follow a blind man he doesn't lead anywhere and in the end you fall into the ditch. Without a master you cannot follow the Way. If you want the true Way a master is necessary. I show my disciples the direction to the Way, which is hard to see. If they don't look at me they go in the wrong direction. Without a master you cannot maintain a correct posture, breathing, and state of mind for very long. In zazen, you get up and quit as soon as you feel a little discomfort: "Today is a bad day, tomorrow maybe'' With a master you must follow, and you can. Even if you don't want to perform samu you follow, thanks to the interdependence between master, friends, brothers and sisters of the holy sangha. Alone it's hard. Even Mahakasyapa followed Buddha, needed him. If you want to understand the true Way, the true Zen, a true master is necessary.
Nowadays people seem to be so weak, can a Zen master find strong, true disciples?
It's very easy, yes, because people are very intelligent. Of course, times have changed and conditions in big cities like Paris aren't the same as in the countryside. Educations differ, are specific to each place and period. Disciples are always changing. You are here and you are surely sincere, honest, and good. I believe it. So the kyosaku is not necessary; I don't like to use it. Teaching by the kyosaku is not the best way. In ancient China masters taught solely with the stick. They never used words. Master Umon's school was called the "kyosaku school" because he never opened his mouth and used nothing but the stick to teach with his whole life long (he himself was nicknamed "Master Stick"). It was a powerful school in which the disciples became extremely strong. Questions were very profound and carefully chosen, and when you asked the master a question you would receive the kyosaku. One blow for every mistake.
Topic: Questions and anwers to Master Deshimaru (Read 8166 times)