GAY/LESBIAN apakah wajar ?

[sumana]

    

Apakah menurut anda GAY/LESBIAN itu wajar ?
Apakah orang tua yg mendukung hal tersebut sehingga menjadi suatu ke-"wajar"-an ?

Wajar kah menurut anda ?

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

selama masih terjebak samsara, wajar. menurut aye pribadi sih wajar-wajar aja
tapi secara norma sosial sih mungkin belum diterima yak di Indonesia.

[Sumedho]

wajar itu batasannya sangat bervariasi tergantung ukuran apa kita melihatnya.

kalau buat saya sih wajar saja. kalau buat norma di arab misalnya, yah tidak.

[hatRed]

tidak wajar.

alat kelamin pria tidak didesain untuk berpasangan dengan pria

begitu pula perempuan.

bused dari tadi pagi topiknya yg ngeres2 melulu apa g nya yg ngeres..

[Tekkss Katsuo]

 

dalam dunia yg penuh samsara ini semua terjebak oleh jodoh kamma,,, segala sesuatu bisa wajar dan tidak wajar semua tergantung pada pandangan masing masing org, namun sesungguhnya pasangan apapun juga tidak terlepas dari kemelekatan akan jasmani dan batin.... So, mao wajar atau tdk org yg berpasangan yg tentukan sendiri, apakah hal itu wajar bagi mereka..

 

[pannadevi]

   

Apakah menurut anda GAY/LESBIAN itu wajar ?
Apakah orang tua yg mendukung hal tersebut sehingga menjadi suatu ke-"wajar"-an ?

Wajar kah menurut anda ?

salam sejahtera selalu Bro Sumana,
semula avatar anda mirip Bro Gachapin yaitu Sang Buddha, apakah benar ?

tentang pertanyaan anda, jika saya amati anda selalu menggunakan metoda Sang Buddha, yaitu pengulangan hingga 3 kali, sejak namaste (3x) hingga pertanyaan anda ini juga 3x. tetapi yg anda minta adalah 3 sisi, yaitu secara pandangan umum, orang tua dan pribadi (CMIIW).

saya rasa secara umum orang timur masih menolak, sedang orang barat lebih liberal. para orang tua selalu bersedih hati dan hancur bila putra/i nya menjadi berkepribadian demikian. secara pribadi saya sendiri melihat hal tsb masih belum bisa diterima baik dari sisi sosial maupun agama, klo mo nikah juga repot, klo bersosialisasi juga repot, namun ini semua kembali ke pribadi masing2.

sebenarnya sy ingin merujuk pada sutta, tapi blm ketemu di sutta mana, sysedang mencari di sutta mana yang mengisahkan hal ini, yaitu di Jaman Sang Buddha ada seorang Bhikkhu yang bernama YM.Kacchayana (atau YM.Kacchana yg mana yg benar blm ketemu suttanya), beliau karena berpikiran bagaimana klo menjadi seorang wanita (tepatnya waktu itu beliau bangga dg kulitnya yg halus, seperti wanita layaknya), maka berubah menjadi wanita, dan memiliki suami serta melahirkan 2 orang anak, yang dilahirkan sendiri dari rahim beliau serta menyusuinya sendiri. Karena timbunan kebajikan beliau cukup untuk mencapai arahat maka beliau mampu meraih arahat dan kembali menjadi semula. mohon para glomod, mod dan rekan2 DC yang bisa bantu untuk menemukan sutta ini mohon bantuan sharingnya, seblm n sesdhnya diucapkan terima kasih.

may all beings be happy

mettacittena,

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

bukan dari sutta. tetapi dari komentar dhammapada syair 43.
Dan yang berganti kelamin adalah Soreyya, karena melihat Maha Kacchayana.

[dhammadinna]

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dmpada2b.htm

Verse 43

III (9) The Story of Soreyya

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (43) of this book, with reference to Soreyya, the son of a rich man of Soreyya city.

On one occasion, Soreyya accompanied by a friend and some attendants was going out in a luxurious carriage for a bath. At that moment, Thera Mahakaccayana was adjusting his robes outside the city, as he was going into the city of Soreyya for alms-food. The youth Soreyya, seeing the golden complexion of the thera, thought, "How I wish the thera were my wife, or else that the complexion of my wife were like that of his." As the wish arose in him, his sex changed and he became a woman. Very much ashamed, he got down from the carriage and ran away, taking the road to Taxila. His companions missing him, looked for him, but could not find him.

Soreyya, now a woman, offered her signet ring to some people going to Taxila, to allow her to go along with them in their carriage. On arrival at Taxila, her companions told a young rich man of Taxila about the lady who came along with them. The young rich man, finding her to be very beautiful and of a suitable age for him, married her. As a result of this marriage two sons were born; there were also two sons from the previous marriage of Soreyya as a man.

One day, a rich man's son from the city of Soreyya came to Taxila with five hundred carts. Lady-Soreyya recognizing him to be an old friend sent for him. The man from Soreyya city was surprised that he was invited, because he did not know the lady who invited him. He told the lady-Soreyya that he did not know her, and asked her whether she knew him. She answered that she knew him and also enquired after the health of her family and other people in Soreyya city. The man from Soreyya city next told her about the rich man's son who disappeared mysteriously while going out for a bath. Then the Lady-Soreyya revealed her identity and related all that had happened, about the wrongful thoughts with regard to Thera Mahakaccayana, about the change of sex, and her marriage to the young rich man of Taxila. The man from the city of Soreyya then advised the lady-Soreyya to ask pardon of the thera. Thera Mahakaccayana was accordingly invited to the home of Soreyya and alms-food was offered to him. After the meal, the lady-Soreyya was brought to the presence of the thera, and the man from Soreyya told the thera that the lady was at one time the son of a rich man from Soreyya city. He then explained to the thera how Soreyya was turned into a female on account of his wrongful thoughts towards the respected thera. Lady-Soreyya then respectfully asked pardon of Thera Mahakaccayana. The thera then said, "Get up, I forgive you." As soon as these words were spoken, the woman was changed back to a man. Soreyya then pondered how within a single existence and with a single body he had undergone change of sex and how sons were born to him, etc. And feeling very weary and repulsive of all these things, he decided to leave the household life and joined the Order under the thera.

After that, he was often asked, "Whom do you love more, the two sons you had as a man or the other two you had as a wife?" To them, he would answer that his love for those born of the womb was greater. This question was put to him so often, he felt very much annoyed and ashamed. So he stayed by himself and with diligence, contemplated the decay and dissolution of the body. He soon attained arahatship together with the Analytical Insight. When the old question was next put to him he replied that he had no affection for any one in particular. Other bhikkhus hearing him thought he must be telling a lie. When reported about Soreyya giving a different answer, the Buddha said, "My son is not telling lies, he is speaking the truth. His answer now is different because he has now realized arahatship and so has no more affection for anyone in particular. By his well-directed mind my son has brought about in himself a well-being which neither the father nor the mother can bestow on him."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 43: Not a mother, nor a father, nor any other relative can do more for the well-being of one than a rightly-directed mind can.

At the end of the discourse many attained Sotapatti Fruition.

[dhammadinna]

Berarti besar sekali pengaruh kekuatan pikiran yang salah, yang dilakukan Soreyya terhadap YM Mahakaccayana ya.. Bisa langsung berubah begitu..

[johan3000]

   

Apakah menurut anda GAY/LESBIAN itu wajar ?
Apakah orang tua yg mendukung hal tersebut sehingga menjadi suatu ke-"wajar"-an ?

Wajar kah menurut anda ?

Bagaimana kalau anak saya gay/lebian ?

nah itu perlu dilihat fisik (alat kelamin) dan psikis...(otak/pikirannya)...

kalau bukan kesalahan anak, ya ortu akan mendukung 100%
mencintain apa adanya...........

wajar atau tidak itu karna kesepakatan umum...........

menurut saya cowok ketemu tempel pipi itu tidak wajar...
soalnya mukanya berminyak terus ngapain ditempelin.......

tapi ada pihak lain yg senang melakukannya..... monggo aja....

[bond]

Secara psikologis, Gay atau lesbi tidak normal karena memang sudah tidak selaras dengan kodrat alam sebagaimana pria dan wanita. Tetapi dan tentunya kita  patut mengasihani mereka akibat perbuatan lampau mereka dengan tidak mengucilkan mereka ataupun melakukan diskriminasi sosial. Hanya dalam hal2 tertentu kelainan psikologis ini perlu diperhatikan. Misal dalam hal untuk menjadi bhikkhu.

Mengenai sorreya dan YM Mahakaccayana. Tidak hanya karena kelalaian dalam pikiran tetapi yg fatal adalah jatuhnya  benih pikiran pada tanah yg super subur (arahat) sehingga langsung berbuah.

[pannadevi]

bukan dari sutta. tetapi dari komentar dhammapada syair 43.
Dan yang berganti kelamin adalah Soreyya, karena melihat Maha Kacchayana.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dmpada2b.htm

Verse 43

III (9) The Story of Soreyya

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (43) of this book, with reference to Soreyya, the son of a rich man of Soreyya city.

On one occasion, Soreyya accompanied by a friend and some attendants was going out in a luxurious carriage for a bath. At that moment, Thera Mahakaccayana was adjusting his robes outside the city, as he was going into the city of Soreyya for alms-food. The youth Soreyya, seeing the golden complexion of the thera, thought, "How I wish the thera were my wife, or else that the complexion of my wife were like that of his." As the wish arose in him, his sex changed and he became a woman. Very much ashamed, he got down from the carriage and ran away, taking the road to Taxila. His companions missing him, looked for him, but could not find him.

Soreyya, now a woman, offered her signet ring to some people going to Taxila, to allow her to go along with them in their carriage. On arrival at Taxila, her companions told a young rich man of Taxila about the lady who came along with them. The young rich man, finding her to be very beautiful and of a suitable age for him, married her. As a result of this marriage two sons were born; there were also two sons from the previous marriage of Soreyya as a man.

One day, a rich man's son from the city of Soreyya came to Taxila with five hundred carts. Lady-Soreyya recognizing him to be an old friend sent for him. The man from Soreyya city was surprised that he was invited, because he did not know the lady who invited him. He told the lady-Soreyya that he did not know her, and asked her whether she knew him. She answered that she knew him and also enquired after the health of her family and other people in Soreyya city. The man from Soreyya city next told her about the rich man's son who disappeared mysteriously while going out for a bath. Then the Lady-Soreyya revealed her identity and related all that had happened, about the wrongful thoughts with regard to Thera Mahakaccayana, about the change of sex, and her marriage to the young rich man of Taxila. The man from the city of Soreyya then advised the lady-Soreyya to ask pardon of the thera. Thera Mahakaccayana was accordingly invited to the home of Soreyya and alms-food was offered to him. After the meal, the lady-Soreyya was brought to the presence of the thera, and the man from Soreyya told the thera that the lady was at one time the son of a rich man from Soreyya city. He then explained to the thera how Soreyya was turned into a female on account of his wrongful thoughts towards the respected thera. Lady-Soreyya then respectfully asked pardon of Thera Mahakaccayana. The thera then said, "Get up, I forgive you." As soon as these words were spoken, the woman was changed back to a man. Soreyya then pondered how within a single existence and with a single body he had undergone change of sex and how sons were born to him, etc. And feeling very weary and repulsive of all these things, he decided to leave the household life and joined the Order under the thera.

After that, he was often asked, "Whom do you love more, the two sons you had as a man or the other two you had as a wife?" To them, he would answer that his love for those born of the womb was greater. This question was put to him so often, he felt very much annoyed and ashamed. So he stayed by himself and with diligence, contemplated the decay and dissolution of the body. He soon attained arahatship together with the Analytical Insight. When the old question was next put to him he replied that he had no affection for any one in particular. Other bhikkhus hearing him thought he must be telling a lie. When reported about Soreyya giving a different answer, the Buddha said, "My son is not telling lies, he is speaking the truth. His answer now is different because he has now realized arahatship and so has no more affection for anyone in particular. By his well-directed mind my son has brought about in himself a well-being which neither the father nor the mother can bestow on him."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 43: Not a mother, nor a father, nor any other relative can do more for the well-being of one than a rightly-directed mind can.

At the end of the discourse many attained Sotapatti Fruition.

 [at]  Bro Gachapin, thanks banget, dlm wkt 17 menit sdh lgs terposting jwban anda, sungguh cepat sekali (dlm hati sy berharap semoga ujian bisa nanya ya...)...just kidding...skali lagi thanks...nambah boleh ya...ada lagi ngga? krn klo mo buat paper setidaknya ada 2 ato 3 referensi, mungkin bukan dijaman Sang Buddha, ada ngga ya?

 [at]  Sis Melia, thanks banget,wah anda dlm wkt 30 menit sdh lgs terposting, anda memberikan secara lengkap, ini sy butuhkan buat paper, ada lagi ngga ya? (bukan dikasih hati minta rempela lho, ini beneran nanya, thx)

may all beings be happy

mettacittena,

[dhammadinna]

owh, saya justru nyontek dari bro gachapin, search di google Btw, samaneri perlu bahan tentang materi apa? nanti saya coba carikan lagi...

[pannadevi]

owh, saya justru nyontek dari bro gachapin, search di google Btw, samaneri perlu bahan tentang materi apa? nanti saya coba carikan lagi...

wah cocok nih, semoga ujian bisa nanya nihhh...(hehehe...)
gini sis Melia klo mo buat paper setidaknya ada 2 ato 3 referensi, jadi selain kisah diatas, ada lagi ga? krn klo hnya dari 1 kasus saja kurang kuat, sehingga kalo ada beberapa maka bisa kuat datanya bisa dibuat paper, ini baru ide, krn tugas kita ada yg dari dosen, ada yg bebas, nah yg bebas kok tiba2 terbersit ttg hal ini 2 hari yg lalu gara2 salah satu rekan DC, ga tahunya ketemu hari ini dg Bro Gachapin dan anda. salut buat Bro Gachapin saya sll dibantu udah setahun gabung di DC, memang dia spt komputer, ditanya sll langsung kasih jawaban...skali lagi thanks Bro Gachapin n Sis Melia...

mettacittena,

[sobat-dharma]

Menurut PPDGJ-III (Pedoman Penggolongan & Diagnosis Gangguan Jiwa) yang diterbitkan oleh Depkes RI, homoseksual adalah varian orientasi seksual yang sama normalnya dengan heteroseksual.  Begitu juga menurut DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) dan ICD-10 (Internatonal Classification of Disease).Ketiga manual dalam dunia psikiatri dan psikologi yang antara lain diterbitkan oleh APA (Amerika) dan WHO (Dunia) secara gamblang dan terbuka menyatakan bahwa homoseksual bukan lagi gangguan jiwa dan merupakan perilaku seksual yang sama sehatnya dengan heteroseksual sejak tahun 1973.

Bahkan, jauh hari di awal 1900an, Sigmund Freud, tokoh pendiri psikoanalisis yang sangat berpengaruh, jelas-jelas mengatakan bahwa homoseksual adalah hal yang wajar. Banyak tokoh besar dunia, seperti Leonardo Da Vinci, Tchaikovsky, Virginia Woolf, dll.adalah seorang homoseks. Selain itu, Sigmund Freud juga berusaha meyakinkan seorang ibu, yang menyuratinya untuk menanyakan pendapatnya tentang puteranya yang gay, bahwa homoseksual bukan penyakit dan tidak mungkin disembuhkan. Setiap usaha untuk merubah orientasi seksual seorang homoseks justru mengakibatkan penderitaan pada individu bersangkutan.

Penerus Freud, Carl Gustav Jung mengemukakan bahwa pada setiap manusia sebenarnya di dalam dirinya terdapat aspek maskulin maupun feminin secara bersamaan yang disebutnya sebagai Anima dan Animus. Seseorang yang secara sadar berkarakter maskulin pada sisi dalamnya sebenarnya tersembunyi feminitas, sebaliknya juga demikian. Jadi, setiap manusia apakah itu laki-laki ataupun perempuan memiliki sisi feminin maupun maskulin di dalam dirinya.

Sedangkan di dunia Antropologi, Ruth Benedict, seorang antropolog Amerika, jelas-jelas menegaskan bahwa yang menyebabkan masalah psikologis pada seorang homoseks bukanlah orientasi seksualnya semata-mata, melainkan sikap diskriminatif dari masyarakat sekitar yang mengasingkannya. Akibat diasingkan, dikucilkan dan banyak menerima perlakuan tidak adil yang akhirnya menyebabkan seorang homoseks mengalami tekanan.

Sayangnya, pendapat para ahli ini masih harus berbentulan dengan pandangan umum yang masih menilai perilaku homoseks sebagai hal yang tidak wajar. Akibatnya adalah munculnya perilaku yang melecehkan, merendahkan dan mendiskriminasi gay, lesbian dan biseks. Padahal kalau mau jujur, apalah bedanya kaum homoseks jika dibandingkan kita2 yang heteroseks? Perbedaan hanya pada orientasi seksual belaka, sedangkan sisanya tidak ada lagi yang berbeda. Benar-benar hanyalah manusia biasa!