Membaca Sutta secara kritis

[hudoyo]

Artikel ini dialih bahasakan seizin Bhante Dhammavuddho Maha Thera
(Abbot dari Vihara Buddha Gotama, Perak, Malaysia)
www.vbgnet.org
Dipublikasikan secara gratis oleh DPD PATRIA Sumut
Diterjemahkan oleh :
Yuliana Lie Pannasiri, BBA, MBA
Diedit oleh :
Andromeda Nauli, PhD
&
Nyanna Suriya Johnny, S.E

Artikel ini ditulis oleh seorang bhikkhu Theravada. Secara tersirat beliau mau menekankan bahwa seluruh Sutta Pitaka berisi ajaran Sang Buddha, dari A sampai Z tidak boleh dikurangi.

Orang bebas untuk menerima atau tidak menerima kata-kata bhikkhu ini. Kalau betul apa yang dikatakan oleh beliau, maka thread ini bisa ditutup saja.

[ryu]

[hudoyo]

DHAMMA VINAYA ADALAH GURU KITA
Sekarang ini, ajaran-ajaran Sang Buddha sering disebut sebagai Tipitaka atau Tripitaka (Tiga Kumpulan), walaupun mereka disebut “Dhamma-Vinaya” oleh Sang Buddha di dalam khotbah-khotbahnya. Di Sutta Anguttara Nikaya 4.180, Sang Buddha secara khusus merujuk Dhamma sebagai Sutta (khotbah). Vinaya adalah peraturan kedisiplinan bhikkhu/bhikkhuni.

Anguttara Nikaya 4.180 ini persis sama dengan bagian "Cattaro Maha-upadesa" dari Mahaparinibbana-sutta yang dipersoalkan. ... Ini menarik: satu bagian dari Mahaparinibbana-sutta ditemukan berdiri sendiri sebagai "Maha-upadesa-sutta" (Anguttara Nikaya 4.180). ... Pertanyaannya: bagaimana prosesnya sampai bisa begitu?

018.10. At one time The Blessed One was living in the ânanda monument in Bhoganagar. and addressed the bhikkhus:

Bhikkhus, these four are distinct indications, listen carefully, I will tell you.

Bhikkhus, what are the four distinct indications?

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, I have heard this in the presence of The Blessed One and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are not found in the discourses and if there is no proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are not the words, of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are wrongly grasped words of that bhikkhu and they should be thrown away.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, I have heard this in the presence of The Blessed One and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are found in the discourses and if there is proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are indeed the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are rightly grasped words of that bhikkhu and should be remembered. Bhikkhus, remember this as the first distinct indication.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name bhikkhus live. They are eminent elders, leaders. I heard this from them and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are not found in the discourses and if there is no proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are not the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are wrongly grasped words of the Community and they should be thrown away.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name bhikkhus live. They are eminent elders, leaders. I heard this from them and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are found in the discourses and if there is proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are rightly grasped words of the Community and should be remembered. Bhikkhus, remember this as the second distinct indication.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name many elder bhikkhus live. They are the bearers of the Teaching and the Discipline with the headings. I heard this from them and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and they should be searched in the discourses and proof looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are not found in the discourses and if there is no proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are not the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are wrongly grasped words of those elders and they should be thrown away.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name many elder bhikkhus live. They are the bearers of the Teaching and the Discipline, with the headings. I heard this from them and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and they should be searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are found in the discourses with proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are rightly grasped words of those elders and should be remembered. Bhikkhus, remember this as the third distinct indication.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name a single bhikkhu lives. He is an eminent elder, a leader. a bearer of the Teaching and Discipline with the headings. I heard this from him and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and should be searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are not found in the discourses and if there is no proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are not the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are wrongly grasped words of that elder and they should be thrown away.

Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might say, in the monastery of this name a single bhikkhu lives. He is an eminent elder, a leader a bearer of the Teaching and Discipline with the headings. I heard this from him and it was acknowledged. This is the Teaching, this is the Discipline and this is the dispensation of the Teacher. The words of that bhikkhu should not be disparaged nor accepted, those words and letters should be thoroughly learnt and searched in the discourses and proof should be looked in the Discipline. If those words and letters are found in the discourses and if there is proof in the Discipline, it should be concluded these are the words of that Blessed One, worthy and rightfully enlightened. These are rightly grasped words of that elder and should be remembered. Bhikkhus, remember this as the fourth distinct indication. Bhikkhus, these are the four distinct indications.

[ryu]

Sewaktu sang Buddha mencapai Nibbana akhir di Kusinara, salah seorang murid senior : Maha Kassapa dan sekelompok bhikkhu sedang dalam perjalanan menuju kusinara untuk menjumpai sang Buddha, namun mereka belum mendengar berita kemangkatan Guru mereka. Dalam perjalanan, mereka bertemu seorang pertapa pengembara yang kemudian menyampaikan berita kemangkatan sang Buddha yang telah beberapa hari sebelumnya. Begitu mendengar berita ini beberapa bhikkhu mulai meratap sedih, tapi salah satu dari mereka Subbhadda, yang menjadi bhikkhu pada usianya yang telah lanjut malah berkata :

Sudahlah kawan kawan, tidak usah meratap atau menangis! kita sebenarnya beruntung telah terlepas dari pertapa agung itu, dia selalu saja menjemukan kita dengan berkata "Adalah baik bila engkau berbuat begini atau adalah baik bila engkau tidak berbuat begitu!". Sekarang kita dapat berbuat atau tidak berbuat, sesuka hati kita.

Digha Nikaya II:163

Maha Kassapa kemudian menyadari bahwa andaikata banyak bhikkhu seperti Subbhada, ketidakseuaian paham mengenai Dhamma akan segera muncul. Oleh karena itu diputuskan bahwa tiga bulan kemudian pertemuan besar akan dilaksanakan.

[Sumedho]

Didalam Itivuttaka kan dikelompokkan dari 1-4, kita tidak akan bisa menemukan yg faktornya lebih dari itu

ini ada yang faktor 3,

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Endowed with three qualities a monk has passed beyond Mara's domain and shines like the sun. Which three? There is the case where a monk is endowed with the aggregate of virtue of one beyond training [i.e., an arahant], the aggregate of concentration of one beyond training, the aggregate of discernment of one beyond training. Endowed with these three qualities a monk has passed beyond Mara's domain and shines like the sun."

Virtue, concentration, discernment:
one in whom these are well-developed,
passing beyond Mara's domain,
   shines, shines
   like the sun.

[hudoyo]

 [at] Ryu

Apa relevansinya kutipan Anda itu dengan topik yang sedang didiskusikan? Apakah Anda mau bilang bahwa orang-orang yang mendiskusikan sampai di mana keotentikan bagian-bagian Tipitaka Pali di sini sama dengan Subbhadda dalam kutipan Anda?

[ryu]

yang membuat kemunduran agama Buddha itu bisa jadi dari dalamnya sendiri bukan dari luar
bagaimana bisa disebut agama / ajaran yang baik kalau umatnya sendiri yang menghancurkan Dhamma sang Buddha gitu lho Pak

Maaf kalau salah kata yah

[hudoyo]

 [at] Ryu

Apa yang Anda maksud "menghancurkan Dhamma sang Buddha dari dalam"? Bisa dijelaskan lagi?

Bagi saya yang disebut "menghancurkan Dhamma Sang Buddha dari dalam" adalah "mengatakan sebagai ajaran Sang Buddha apa yang sesungguhnya bukan ajaran Sang Buddha". ... Nah, cocokkah itu dengan pengertian Anda tentang "menghancurkan Dhamma sang Buddha"?

[hudoyo]

Didalam Itivuttaka kan dikelompokkan dari 1-4, kita tidak akan bisa menemukan yg faktornya lebih dari itu

JUSTRU fakta bahwa dalam Itivuttaka enumerasi itu cuma sampai 4 menunjukkan bahwa kitab itu relatif lebih tua umurnya. ... Ini berbeda dengan Anguttara Nikaya, misalnya, di mana enumerasi sampai sebelas. Jelas Anguttara Nikaya jauh lebih "muda" daripada Itivuttaka.

[Semit]

[at] Ryu

Apa yang Anda maksud "menghancurkan Dhamma sang Buddha dari dalam"? Bisa dijelaskan lagi?

Bagi saya yang disebut "menghancurkan Dhamma Sang Buddha dari dalam" adalah "mengatakan sebagai ajaran Sang Buddha apa yang sesungguhnya bukan ajaran Sang Buddha". ... Nah, cocokkah itu dengan pengertian Anda tentang "menghancurkan Dhamma sang Buddha"?

DAN "mengatakan sebagai bukan ajaran Sang Buddha apa yang sesungguhnya ajaran Sang Buddha"

[hudoyo]

DAN "mengatakan sebagai bukan ajaran Sang Buddha apa yang sesungguhnya ajaran Sang Buddha"

Bisa diberi contoh?

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

KM.

[Sumedho]

Didalam Itivuttaka kan dikelompokkan dari 1-4, kita tidak akan bisa menemukan yg faktornya lebih dari itu

JUSTRU fakta bahwa dalam Itivuttaka enumerasi itu cuma sampai 4 menunjukkan bahwa kitab itu relatif lebih tua umurnya. ... Ini berbeda dengan Anguttara Nikaya, misalnya, di mana enumerasi sampai sebelas. Jelas Anguttara Nikaya jauh lebih "muda" daripada Itivuttaka.

Muda dalam artian diutarakan oleh Sang Buddha atau muda dalam artian ditulis?

[Semit]

Contoh belum bisa diberikan, karena diskusi masih berlangsung dan belum sampai pada kesimpulan, apa yang saya katakan hanya menyambung kalimat Sdr. Hudoyo yang belum lengkap. kalau saya paksakan untuk memberikan contoh, nantinya akan dijawab bahwa, itu bukan berasal dari mulut Sang Buddha, tambahan belakangan, dll. seperti yang sudah sering terjadi. mohon bersabar hingga diskusi ini menghasilkan kesimpulan.

[tesla]

Contoh belum bisa diberikan, karena diskusi masih berlangsung dan belum sampai pada kesimpulan, apa yang saya katakan hanya menyambung kalimat Sdr. Hudoyo yang belum lengkap. kalau saya paksakan untuk memberikan contoh, nantinya akan dijawab bahwa, itu bukan berasal dari mulut Sang Buddha, tambahan belakangan, dll. seperti yang sudah sering terjadi. mohon bersabar hingga diskusi ini menghasilkan kesimpulan.

tampaknya sama seperti apa yg dikatakan rekan Suchamda, bahwa
dalam diskusi 'kejanggalan sutta', Anda dan beberapa rekan malah menjawab dg pondasi bahwa 'sutta adalah absolut benar'. mungkin ini terjadi secara tanpa disadari yah?

fenomenal begini terjadi di agama2 lain juga sementara umat Buddhist begitu bangga dg Kalama Sutta yg dipakai utk meng-counter bahwa kitab suci lain belum tentu benar... menurut saya ini juga berlaku utk kitab suci agama Buddha (Tipitaka/Tripitaka). Alkitab, Alquran belum tentu 100% dari Tuhan/Allah, demikian juga dg Tipitaka/Tripitak belum tentu 100% adalah benar ucapan Sang Buddha. semoga dapat menerima fakta ini...