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Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #15 on: 16 January 2014, 02:35:57 PM »
Middle Way dari way-way (jalan-jalan) yang mana ?
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

Offline K.K.

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #16 on: 16 January 2014, 03:29:47 PM »
Middle Way dari way-way (jalan-jalan) yang mana ?
Middle way dari way-way nge-trend saat itu yang membahas tentang eksistensi sejati (bhava). Golongan Abhidharmik (termasuk Theravada) membahas adanya realitas sejati yang tidak tergantung pada kesepakatan konvensional, merujuk pada svabhava (atau sabhava dalam Pali, yang tidak muncul dalam nikaya awal, namun muncul belakangan dalam Milindapanha dan Nettipakarana, dan Visuddhimagga).

Nagarjuna mengatakan karena semua fenomena muncul bergantungan, tidak ada satu sifat sejati dari unsur karena bergantung pada lainnya untuk timbul, maka no bhava, no abhava, no svabhava, no parabhava, semuanya adalah sunya, muncul bergantungan, dan lenyap pula ketika kondisinya lenyap. 


Offline djoe

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #17 on: 16 January 2014, 03:39:05 PM »
gak punya. Kalau mau download scribbd titip aja ke aku link nya, ntar aku usahakan dapetin.

nih yg candrakirti aku masukin mediaapi
http://www.mediafire.com/view/nf2fr7xbm4bq26r/95463567-Candrakirti-1979-Lucid-Exposition-of-the-Middle-Way-Essential-Prasannapada-Tr-Mervyn-Sprung.pdf

Thanks bangettt bro. 
Buku ini cuma sampai chapter 19 aja yah bro atau ada jilid ke duanya???
« Last Edit: 16 January 2014, 03:40:43 PM by djoe »

Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #18 on: 16 January 2014, 07:07:22 PM »
Middle way dari way-way nge-trend saat itu yang membahas tentang eksistensi sejati (bhava). Golongan Abhidharmik (termasuk Theravada) membahas adanya realitas sejati yang tidak tergantung pada kesepakatan konvensional, merujuk pada svabhava (atau sabhava dalam Pali, yang tidak muncul dalam nikaya awal, namun muncul belakangan dalam Milindapanha dan Nettipakarana, dan Visuddhimagga).

Nagarjuna mengatakan karena semua fenomena muncul bergantungan, tidak ada satu sifat sejati dari unsur karena bergantung pada lainnya untuk timbul, maka no bhava, no abhava, no svabhava, no parabhava, semuanya adalah sunya, muncul bergantungan, dan lenyap pula ketika kondisinya lenyap. 


emang-nya "Theravada" pada saat itu sudah tidak berdasarkan pada anattalakkhana sutta ?
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

Offline xenocross

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #19 on: 16 January 2014, 11:55:18 PM »
Thanks bangettt bro. 
Buku ini cuma sampai chapter 19 aja yah bro atau ada jilid ke duanya???

judulnya kan bab-bab esensial, jadi mungkin memang gak semua diterjemahin.

Middle-way disini mengacu pada konteks debat filosofis waktu itu, dimana ada banyak teori termasuk teori non-buddhis.
Dan semuanya dihancurkan oleh Nagarjuna dengan doktrin "Sunyata"
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline xenocross

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #20 on: 17 January 2014, 12:24:45 AM »
emang-nya "Theravada" pada saat itu sudah tidak berdasarkan pada anattalakkhana sutta ?

At this point some general introductory remarks concerning Nāgār juna’s goals and strategies might not be amiss. In MMK Nāgārjuna is addressing an audience of fellow Buddhists. (In the other work generally accepted as by Nāgārjuna, the
Vigrahavyāvartanī , his interlocutors also include members of the non-Buddhist Nyāya school.) Of particular importance is the fact that his audience holds views that are based on the fundamental presuppositions behind the Abhidharma enterprise. Abhidharma is that part of the Buddhist philosophical tradition that aims at filling out the metaphysical details behind the Buddha’s core teachings of nonself, impermanence, and suffering. A number of different Abhidharma schools arose out of significant controversies concerning these details. They held in common, however, a core set of presuppositions, which may be roughly sketched as follows:

1.There are two ways in which a statement may be true, conventionally and ultimately.
a. To say of a statement that it is conventionally true is to say that action based on its acceptance reliably leads to successful practice. Our commonsense convictions concerning ourselves and the world are for the most part conventionally true, since they reflect conventions that have been found to be useful in everyday practice.

b. To say of a statement that it is ultimately true is to say that it corresponds to the nature of reality and neither asserts nor presupposes the existence of any mere conceptual fiction. A conceptual fiction is something that is thought to exist only because of facts about us concept-users and the concepts that we happen to employ. For instance, a chariot is a conceptual fiction. When a set of parts is assembled in the right way, we only believe there is a chariot in addition to the parts because of facts about our interests and our cognitive limitations: We have an interest in assemblages that facilitate transportation, and we would have trouble listing all the parts and all their connections. The ultimate truth is absolutely objective; it reflects the way the world is independently of what happens to be useful for us. No statement
about a chariot could be ultimately true (or ultimately false).

2. Only dharmas are ultimately real.
a. To say of something that it is ultimately real is to say that it is the sort of thing about which ultimately true (or false) statements may be made. An ultimately real entity is unlike a mere conceptual fiction in that it may be said to exist independently of facts about us.

b. The ultimately real dharmas are simple or impartite. They are not products of the mind’s tendency to aggregate for purposes of conceptual economy. They are what remain when all products of such activity have been analytically resolved into their basic constituents. They may include such things as indivisible material particles, spatio-temporally discrete occurrences of color and shape, pain sensations, particular occurrences of basic desires such as hunger and thirst, and individual moments of consciousness. (Different Abhidharma schools give somewhat different accounts of what dharmas there are.)

c. All the facts about our commonsense world of people, towns, forests, chariots, and the like can be explained entirely in terms of facts about the dharmas and their relations with one another.
The conventional truth can be explained entirely in terms of the ultimate truth.

3. Dharmas originate in dependence on causes and conditions.
While not all Abhidharma schools hold that all dharmas are subject to dependent origination ( pratītyasamutpāda), all agree that most dharmas are. And since anything subject to origination is also subject to cessation, most (or all) dharmas are also impermanent.

4. Dharmas have intrinsic nature (svabhāva).
a. An intrinsic nature is a property that is intrinsic to its bearer—that is, the fact that the property characterizes that entity is independent of facts about anything else.

b. Only dharmas have intrinsic nature. The size and shape of a chariot are not intrinsic natures of the chariot, since the chariot’s having its size and shape depends on the size, shape, and arrangement of its parts. The size and shape of the chariot are instead extrinsic natures (parabhāva) since they are not the “its own” of the chariot but are rather borrowed.

c. Dharmas have only intrinsic natures. A characteristic that a thing can have only by virtue of its relation to another thing (such as the characteristic of being taller than Mont Blanc) is not intrinsic to the thing that has it. To suppose that the thing nonetheless has that characteristic is to allow mental construction to play a role in our conception of that which is real. For it requires us to suppose that a thing can have a complex nature: an intrinsic nature—what it itself is like apart from everything else—plus those properties it gets by virtue of its relations to other things.
To the extent that this nature is complex, it is conceptually constructed by the mind’s aggregative tendencies.

d. A given dharma has only one intrinsic nature. Since dharmas are what remain at the end of analysis, and analysis dissolves the aggregating that is contributed by mental construction, a given dharma can have only one intrinsic nature.

5. Suffering is overcome by coming to realize the ultimate truth about ourselves and the world.
a. Suffering results from the false belief that there is an enduring “I,” the subject of experience and agent of actions, for which events in a life can have meaning.

b. This false belief results from failure to see that the person is a mere conceptual fiction, something lacking intrinsic nature. What is ultimately real is just a causal series of dharmas. Suffering is overcome by coming to see reality in a genuinely objective way, a way that does not project any conceptual fictions onto the world.

Nāgārjuna does not deny that this is what dharmas would be like.
Instead he rejects the further implication that there actually are dharmas. His position is that if there were ultimately real things, they would be dharmas, things with intrinsic nature; but there cannot be such things. Not only are the person and other partite things devoid of intrinsic nature and so mere conceptual fictions, the same holds for dharmas as well. This is what it means to say that all things are empty.
Given the nature of this claim, there can be no single argument that could establish it. Such a “master argument” would have to be based on claims about the ultimate natures of things, and given what would be required to establish that such claims are ultimately true, this would involve commitment to intrinsic natures of some sort or other. Nāgārjuna’s strategy is instead to examine a variety of claims made by those who take there to be ultimately real entities and seek to show of each such claim that it cannot be true. Indeed the commentators introduce each chapter as addressing the objection of an opponent to the conclusion of the preceding chapter. The expectation is that once opponents have seen sufficiently many of their central theses refuted, they will acknowledge that further attempts at finding the ultimate truth are likely to prove fruitless.

http://www.wisdompubs.org/sites/default/files/preview/Nagarjuna%27s-Middle-Way-Book-Preview-R.pdf
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline K.K.

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #21 on: 17 January 2014, 09:35:36 AM »
emang-nya "Theravada" pada saat itu sudah tidak berdasarkan pada anattalakkhana sutta ?
Ga ada hubungan dengan Anattalakkhanasutta kali...


Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #22 on: 17 January 2014, 11:44:31 AM »
Middle way dari way-way nge-trend saat itu yang membahas tentang eksistensi sejati (bhava). Golongan Abhidharmik (termasuk Theravada) membahas adanya realitas sejati yang tidak tergantung pada kesepakatan konvensional, merujuk pada svabhava (atau sabhava dalam Pali, yang tidak muncul dalam nikaya awal, namun muncul belakangan dalam Milindapanha dan Nettipakarana, dan Visuddhimagga).


di-bagian mana di milinda panha yang menyatakan ada realitas sejati ?
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #23 on: 17 January 2014, 12:22:04 PM »
di-bagian mana di milinda panha yang menyatakan ada realitas sejati ?
Bagian kesempurnaan Buddha, mengenai 28 manfaat pengasingan diri, salah satunya: "sankharanam sabhavam dassayati", memahami realitas sejati bentukan.

Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #24 on: 17 January 2014, 12:31:01 PM »
Bagian kesempurnaan Buddha, mengenai 28 manfaat pengasingan diri, salah satunya: "sankharanam sabhavam dassayati", memahami realitas sejati bentukan.


saya kalau naik pesawat, sering baca-baca kembali milinda panha... coba quote-kan yang lebih panjang di bagian mana yang membahas soal "memahami realitas sejati bentukan" ?


------------------------

Sudah saya dapatkan apa yang dimaksud...

Bab IX...

9. Kesempurnaan Sang Buddha

“Jika Sang Tathagata telah mencapai segalanya di bawah pohon bodhi, mengapa Beliau menghabiskan waktu tiga bulan lagi di dalam kesendirian?”31
“O, baginda, meditasi kesendirian mempunyai banyak manfaat. Semua Tathagata mencapai kebuddhaan lewat cara itu dan kemudian mengajarkan hal itu demi manfaat umat manusia. Ada dua puluh delapan manfaat praktek kesendirian:32

meditasi itu melindungi seseorang;
memperpanjang usia kehidupannya;
memberikan semangat;
mengikis kelemahannya;
menghilangkan segala reputasi yang buruk, dan
membawa kemasyhuran;
menghancurkan ketidakpuasan, dan
menumbuhkan kepuasan;
menghapuskan ketakutan, dan
memberikan keyakinan;
menghilangkan kemalasan, dan
memenuhinya dengan semangat;
mengusir nafsu,
mengusir niat jahat, dan
mengusir pandangan salah;
melemahkan kesombongan;
menghalau keraguan, dan
membuat pikiran terpusat;
melembutkan pikiran, dan
membuatnya ringan hati;
membuatnya serius;
membawa banyak keuntungan;
membuatnya patut dihormati;
memberikan sukacita;
mengisinya dengan kegembiraan;
menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan;
mengakhiri kelahiran kembali; dan
memberikan kepadanya semua buah dari kehidupan meninggalkan duniawi.
Karena Sang Tathagata mengetahui berbagai keuntungan ini maka Beliau menjalankan praktek kesendirian.
“Dan seluruhnya ada empat alasan mengapa Para Tathagata membaktikan diri pada praktek kesendirian:

agar dapat berdiam di dalam ketenangan;
karena sifat kesendirian yang sama sekali tak tercela;
karena kesendirian merupakan jalan bagi semua yang luhur tanpa kecuali; dan
karena hal itu dipuji dan dimuliakan oleh semua Buddha.
Bukan karena masih ada yang harus dicapai oleh Para Buddha itu, dan bukan pula karena masih ada sesuatu yang perlu ditambahkan pada apa yang telah Mereka capai, melainkan hanya karena manfaat-manfaat yang luar biasa itulah maka Para Buddha mempraktekkan kesendirian.”

-------------


26. menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan (sankharanam sabhavam dassayati)
-- Sifat sejati semua bentukan (sankhara) = bersifat anicca, sehingga ketika dilekati akan menghasilkan dukkha, dan semua fenomena di dunia ini adalah anatta (atau bersifat sankhara).

Sabbe sankhara anicca
Sabbe sankhara dukkha
Sabbe dhamma anatta...

---------------

Bagaimana bisa menafsirkan bagian milinda panha ini sebagai pengertian bahwa ada-nya realitas sejati ???

« Last Edit: 17 January 2014, 12:37:34 PM by dilbert »
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #25 on: 17 January 2014, 12:45:55 PM »
saya kalau naik pesawat, sering baca-baca kembali milinda panha... coba quote-kan yang lebih panjang di bagian mana yang membahas soal "memahami realitas sejati bentukan" ?


------------------------

Sudah saya dapatkan apa yang dimaksud...

Bab IX...

9. Kesempurnaan Sang Buddha

“Jika Sang Tathagata telah mencapai segalanya di bawah pohon bodhi, mengapa Beliau menghabiskan waktu tiga bulan lagi di dalam kesendirian?”31
“O, baginda, meditasi kesendirian mempunyai banyak manfaat. Semua Tathagata mencapai kebuddhaan lewat cara itu dan kemudian mengajarkan hal itu demi manfaat umat manusia. Ada dua puluh delapan manfaat praktek kesendirian:32

meditasi itu melindungi seseorang;
memperpanjang usia kehidupannya;
memberikan semangat;
mengikis kelemahannya;
menghilangkan segala reputasi yang buruk, dan
membawa kemasyhuran;
menghancurkan ketidakpuasan, dan
menumbuhkan kepuasan;
menghapuskan ketakutan, dan
memberikan keyakinan;
menghilangkan kemalasan, dan
memenuhinya dengan semangat;
mengusir nafsu,
mengusir niat jahat, dan
mengusir pandangan salah;
melemahkan kesombongan;
menghalau keraguan, dan
membuat pikiran terpusat;
melembutkan pikiran, dan
membuatnya ringan hati;
membuatnya serius;
membawa banyak keuntungan;
membuatnya patut dihormati;
memberikan sukacita;
mengisinya dengan kegembiraan;
menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan;
mengakhiri kelahiran kembali; dan
memberikan kepadanya semua buah dari kehidupan meninggalkan duniawi.
Karena Sang Tathagata mengetahui berbagai keuntungan ini maka Beliau menjalankan praktek kesendirian.
“Dan seluruhnya ada empat alasan mengapa Para Tathagata membaktikan diri pada praktek kesendirian:

agar dapat berdiam di dalam ketenangan;
karena sifat kesendirian yang sama sekali tak tercela;
karena kesendirian merupakan jalan bagi semua yang luhur tanpa kecuali; dan
karena hal itu dipuji dan dimuliakan oleh semua Buddha.
Bukan karena masih ada yang harus dicapai oleh Para Buddha itu, dan bukan pula karena masih ada sesuatu yang perlu ditambahkan pada apa yang telah Mereka capai, melainkan hanya karena manfaat-manfaat yang luar biasa itulah maka Para Buddha mempraktekkan kesendirian.”

-------------


26. menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan (sankharanam sabhavam dassayati)
-- Sifat sejati semua bentukan (sankhara) = bersifat anicca, sehingga ketika dilekati akan menghasilkan dukkha, dan semua fenomena di dunia ini adalah anatta (atau bersifat sankhara).

Sabbe sankhara anicca
Sabbe sankhara dukkha
Sabbe dhamma anatta...

---------------

Bagaimana bisa menafsirkan bagian milinda panha ini sebagai pengertian bahwa ada-nya realitas sejati ???
Seharusnya saya yang tanya, darimana "sabhava" ditafsirkan "anicca-dukkha-anatta"? Itu mah tilakkhana kali.

Selanjutnya tanya aja sama bang Xenocross deh yah... Saya takut ntar dipanggilin Mingun Sayadaw lagi...

Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #26 on: 17 January 2014, 12:58:29 PM »
Seharusnya saya yang tanya, darimana "sabhava" ditafsirkan "anicca-dukkha-anatta"? Itu mah tilakkhana kali.

Selanjutnya tanya aja sama bang Xenocross deh yah... Saya takut ntar dipanggilin Mingun Sayadaw lagi...



69. 'And there are, O king, these twenty and eight good qualities of meditation in the perception of which the Tathâgatas devoted themselves to it. And which are they? Meditation preserves him who meditates, it gives him long life, and endows him with power, it cleanses him from faults, it removes from him any bad reputation giving him a good name, it destroys discontent in him filling him with content, it releases him from all fear endowing him with confidence, it removes sloth far from him filling him with zeal, it takes away lust and ill-will and dullness, it puts an end to pride, it breaks down all doubt, it makes his heart to be at peace, it softens his mind, [140] it makes him glad, it makes him grave, it gains him much advantage, it makes him worthy of reverence, it fills him with joy, it fills him with delight, it shows him the transitory nature of all compounded things, it puts an end to rebirth, it obtains for him all the benefits of renunciation. These, O king, are the twenty and eight virtues of meditation on the perception of which the Tathâgatas devote themselves to it. But it is because...

--------------------------
Dengan hanya kata sabhavam saja di milinda panha, langsung diterjemahkan / di-tafsirkan ada pembahasan di milinda panha tentang realitas sejati...

di-hampir semua terjemahan.... "sankharanam sabhavam dassayati" di-terjemahkan kira-kira dengan makna "it shows him the transitory nature of all compounded things" / "menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan"
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #27 on: 17 January 2014, 01:05:53 PM »

69. 'And there are, O king, these twenty and eight good qualities of meditation in the perception of which the Tathâgatas devoted themselves to it. And which are they? Meditation preserves him who meditates, it gives him long life, and endows him with power, it cleanses him from faults, it removes from him any bad reputation giving him a good name, it destroys discontent in him filling him with content, it releases him from all fear endowing him with confidence, it removes sloth far from him filling him with zeal, it takes away lust and ill-will and dullness, it puts an end to pride, it breaks down all doubt, it makes his heart to be at peace, it softens his mind, [140] it makes him glad, it makes him grave, it gains him much advantage, it makes him worthy of reverence, it fills him with joy, it fills him with delight, it shows him the transitory nature of all compounded things, it puts an end to rebirth, it obtains for him all the benefits of renunciation. These, O king, are the twenty and eight virtues of meditation on the perception of which the Tathâgatas devote themselves to it. But it is because...

--------------------------
Dengan hanya kata sabhavam saja di milinda panha, langsung diterjemahkan / di-tafsirkan ada pembahasan di milinda panha tentang realitas sejati...

di-hampir semua terjemahan.... "sankharanam sabhavam dassayati" di-terjemahkan kira-kira dengan makna "it shows him the transitory nature of all compounded things" / "menunjukkan kepadanya sifat sejati semua bentukan"
Realitas sejati, sifat sejati, dll, itu hanya terjemahan saja. Saya tidak permasalahkan terjemahan. Coba cari doktrin "sabhava" itu, dan pelajarilah dahulu, jangan pakai asumsi "gue udah tahu pasti maksudnya anicca-dukkha-anatta" dan langsung asbun. Kalau belajar perkembangan doktrin Theravada saja tidak mau, bagaimana mau mengerti doktrin tandingan lainnya dan madhyamaka-nya Nagarjuna?

Maaf, tapi kalau post berikutnya kita masih tidak nyambung tentang doktrin sabhava, saya tidak akan tanggapi lagi yah.

Offline dilbert

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #28 on: 17 January 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
Realitas sejati, sifat sejati, dll, itu hanya terjemahan saja. Saya tidak permasalahkan terjemahan. Coba cari doktrin "sabhava" itu, dan pelajarilah dahulu, jangan pakai asumsi "gue udah tahu pasti maksudnya anicca-dukkha-anatta" dan langsung asbun. Kalau belajar perkembangan doktrin Theravada saja tidak mau, bagaimana mau mengerti doktrin tandingan lainnya dan madhyamaka-nya Nagarjuna?

Maaf, tapi kalau post berikutnya kita masih tidak nyambung tentang doktrin sabhava, saya tidak akan tanggapi lagi yah.


ente yang kata-kan bahwa apa yang tercantum di milinda panha itu doktrin sabhava, padahal yang ada di bab Kesempurnaan Sang Buddha adalah berbeda... tidak ada konteks membahas doktrin sabhava... dan diberbagai terjemahan, tidak ada di-bahas soal doktrin sabhava...

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Jadi inget anggapan "cocoklogi" abhidhamma di bhikkhuni vibhanga (vinaya), tapi kok bisa yah muncul penggunaan "cocoklogi" soal sabhava di Milinda panha.... (cuma 1 kata saja), dan tidak nyambung soal doktrin sabhava yang dimaksud-kan sebagai realitas sejati....
« Last Edit: 17 January 2014, 06:26:31 PM by dilbert »
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Offline xenocross

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Re: Filosofi Middle Way Nagarjuna
« Reply #29 on: 18 January 2014, 09:20:26 AM »
Milinda Panha beberapa kali menyebut kata "sabhava" tetapi waktu itu belum masuk ke doktrin svabhava yang umum ditemui di abhidharma kemudian. Saya kurang tahu, tapi mungkin itu menandakan cikal bakal berkembangnya doktrin svabhava

doktrin svabhava dalam buddhisme misalnya dianut oleh Sarvastivada yang mengatakan: Semua dharma di tiga masa sesungguhnya  ada
Quote
The Sarvāstivāda (Sanskrit: सर्वास्तिवाद sarvāstivāda; traditional Chinese: 說一切有部; pinyin: Shuō Yīqièyǒu Bù) were an early school of Buddhism that held to 'the existence of all dharmas in the past, present and future, the 'three times'. Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakośa-bhāṣya states:

    25c-d. He who affirms the existence of the dharmas of the three time periods [past, present and future] is held to be a Sarvastivadin

di theravada, ada di karya komentar vissudhi magga yang sering menyebut sabhava
Quote
QUOTE
"While a dhamma is a truly existent thing (sabhavasiddha), a pannatti is a thing merely conceptualized (parikappasiddha). The former is an existent verifiable by its own distinctive intrinsic characteristic... The latter, being a product of the mind's synthetic function, exists only by virtue of thought."


To which could be added that the significance of this distinction lies in the question of what may and may not be the object of insight development. As the Visuddhi-Magga explains at the beginning of the section dealing with Understanding (panna) (Ch XIV):

QUOTE
'What are is characteristic, function etc? Understanding has the characteristic of penetrating the individual essences [sabhava] of states [dhammas]. Its function is to abolish the darkness of delusion, which conceals the individual essences of states.' XIV, 7
http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=140

Dan biarpun dikatakan "sungguh ada", konsep svabhava buddhis masih mengatakan anatta dan anicca. Berbeda dengan non-buddhis yang mengatakan atta = svabhava.
Semakin dibaca semakin pusing.

Bro Dilbert, adalah baik untuk belajar filosofi Nagarjuna ini. Di masa lalu ada sekian banyak aliran Buddhis dan aliran agama lain, mereka saling berdebat. Tahu kan debat antar agama di india zaman dulu itu seperti semacam kompetisi.

Begitu Nagarjuna datang dengan filosofi madhyamika ini, filosofi ini mendominasi diskusi di India Utara selama minimal 400 tahun. Di Tibet, dikatakan filosofi ini adalah puncak semua filosofi.

Trus masalah praktikal nya, pikiran kita secara halus selalu melihat diri dan benda lain "ada" secara intrinsik, berdiri sendiri, mempunyai "atta"
Dan ini terjadi dalam 4 cara utama yang disebut nagarjuna
- dilahirkan oleh dirinya sendiri (svabhava A disebabkan svabhava A)
- disebabkan oleh svabhava benda lain (svabhava A menyebabkan svabhava B)
- oleh diri sendiri dan benda lain (campuran yg pertama dan kedua)
- terjadi tanpa sebab ( dari tiada tiba2 ada svabhava A)

Jadi memahami ini secara intelektual adalah suatu langkah merealisasi anatta
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra