The Vajracchedika Prajna Paramita Sutra ( Diamon Sutra) *SUTRA PALSU?*

[Ttone]

Hai halo kawan2x dan saudara2x sekalian! Pertama tama saya ingin mengucapkan Salam bahagia n salam damai! Saya menganggap diri saya sebagai umat Budha, tapi tidak mengklasifikasi diri saya ke salah satu denominasi. Menurut saya agama Budha ya Buddha. Gak ada embel2x lagi dibelakangnya. Menurut saya pembahasan Sutra ini maaf tidaklah penting bagi kemajuan batin kita, malah merujuk ke timbulnya rasa kebencian dan permusuhan, yang malah memundurukan spiritualitas kita.
Kalau saya boleh bilang dari pengetahuan saya yang maaf mungkin juga salah dan terbatas, Sutra maupun sutta apapun di dalam Buddha, yang terpenting adalah intisari dari sutra tersebut. Ada yang rasa cocok, dan merasa maju batinnya dengan sutra tersebut ya bagus, kalau tidak cocok ya silahkan boleh cari sutra/sutta yang lain yang cocok dengan kondisi batin n ruang kita masing masing.
Karena saya merasa kita semua itu berada di dunia "manusia" ini penuh dengan kemajemukan, ada yag rambut pirang, ada yang rambut hitam, etc etc. SEsuatu yang menurut kita asli dan paling benar mungkin dibelahan ujung dunia sana menjadi sesuatu yang tabu dan salah bahkan palsu. Lagian apalah artinya sebuah nama, dan kata kata asli palsu, yang terpenting menurut saya ialah kalau kita bisa memgembangkan cinta kasih kita dan kebahagiaan kita kepada sekeliling kita.
Maaf kalau ada kata2x saya yang salah atau tidak berkenan di hati. Namun hati kecil saya yakin, bahwa tujuan para buddha ialah cinta kasih dan jauh dari serakah, benci, dan ignorant. Akhir kata Semoga semua mahluk hidup, apapun agama dan kepercayaan mereka, besar kecil, tampak maupun kasat mata, semoga semuaaanya bahagia lahir dan batin.
Terima kasih!

[kullatiro]

salah penerjemahan tuh wajar loh wong jataka atahakata yang di terjemahkan ke indonesia saja tidak luput dari kesalahan penerjemahan malah jalan cerita bila di urai kan malah menjadi tidak sesuai dengan vinaya para bhikku gitu lohh ( cerita no 5 yang rice jadi beras itu lohh semestinya kan yang tepat nasi).

TAṆḌULANĀLI-JĀTAKA
“Berapakah kiranya nilai satu takaran beras?” dan
seterusnya. Kisah ini diceritakan Sang Guru ketika berada di
Jetawana, tentang Thera Udāyi, yang dipanggil si Dungu.

Pada masa itu, seorang bhikkhu bernama Dabba, dari suku Malla, bertugas mengatur pembagian persediaan bahan makanan untuk Sanggha21. Di pagi hari Dabba sedang menentukan beras untuk dibagikan, kadang-kadang beras pilihan dan kadang-kadang beras yang mutunya lebih rendah, yang diberikan kepada Bhikkhu Udāyi. Biasanya saat menerima beras yang mutunya lebih rendah, ia membuat kericuhan di ruang penyimpanan dengan berkata, “Apakah Dabba satu-satunya orang yang mengetahui cara menentukan beras? Bukankah kita semua juga bisa?” Suatu hari, saat ia ricuh, mereka menyerahkan keranjang periksa kepadanya dan berkata, “Ambillah! Mulai hari ini, engkau yang menentukan pembagian beras!” Sejak itu, Udāyi bertugas menentukan pembagian beras kepada bhikkhu Sanggha. Namun, dalam pembagian yang dilakukannya, ia tidak mengetahui perbedaan beras yang mutunya bagus dan beras yang mutunya lebih rendah; ia juga tidak tahu bhikkhu senior22 dengan kedudukan apa berhak mendapatkan beras dengan kualitas baik maupun beras dengan mutu yang lebih rendah. Karena itu, saat menyusun daftar nama, ia tidak mengetahui kesenioran kedudukan para bhikkhu. Akhirnya, saat para bhikkhu mengambil tempat, ia menandai lantai maupun dinding untuk menunjukkan pemisahan siapa yang berdiri di sini dan siapa yang berdiri di sana. Di kemudian hari, lebih sedikit bhikkhu pada tingkatan tertentu dan lebih banyak bhikkhu tingkatan yang lain; dimana dengan jumlah yang semakin sedikit, tanda itu semakin menurun, dan untuk jumlah yang bertambah banyak, tandanya juga mengalami kenaikan. Namun Udāyi yang tidak mengetahui tentang pemisahan itu, membagikan penentuan beras hanya menurut tanda lama yang ia buat.

Karena itu, para bhikkhu berkata kepadanya, “Awuso Udāyi, tanda yang engkau buat terlalu tinggi atau terlalu rendah; beras yang mutunya baik, diberikan kepada bhikkhu berkedudukan demikian dan beras yang mutunya lebih rendah diberikan kepada bhikkhu dengan kedudukan yang lain.” Namun ia menyanggah dengan alasan, “Tanda itu berada di tempat seharusnya ia berada. Jika bukan tempatmu, mengapa engkau berdiri di sana? Mengapa saya harus percaya padamu? Saya hanya percaya pada tanda yang saya buat.”

 Para bhikkhu dan samanera [124] mendorongnya keluar dari tempat penyimpanan itu dan berteriak, “Temanku Udāyi yang dungu, karena pembagian yang kamu lakukan, para bhikkhu tidak mendapat apa yang seharusnya menjadi bagian mereka; kamu tidak cocok untuk melakukan tugas ini; pergilah dari sini!” Kegaduhan pun terjadi di ruang penyimpanan tersebut.

Mendengar keributan itu, Sang Guru bertanya pada Ānanda, “Ānanda, ada kegaduhan di ruang penyimpanan. Keributan apakah itu?”

Thera Ānanda menjelaskan kejadian tersebut pada Buddha. “Ānanda,” kata Beliau, “ini bukan pertama kalinya kebodohan Udāyi membuat ia merampas apa yang menjadi milik orang lain; ia juga melakukan hal yang sama di masa lampau.”

Ānanda meminta Bhagawan menjelaskan, kemudian Beliau menceritakan hal yang selama ini tidak Ananda ketahui dikarenakan kelahiran kembali.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/31483424/Jataka-Vol-1

coba berapa banyak dari kalian yang telah membaca jataka athakata, adakah yang menyadari penggunaan kata beras disini tidak tepat?

[djoe]

Baca terjemahan yang ini:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/prajparagen2.pdf

[djoe]

ini terjemahan versi lainnya

chapter 15mungkin harus kita cek jg yg versi bahasa sanskrit utk melihat kata2x apa yg digunakan sebenarnya

Setuju, Yang ngomong Mahayana atau Hinayana itu Penterjemahnya atau Buddha?
Kalau yang ngomong itu penterjemahnya trus anda mengatakan sutra ini palsu, Neraka akibatnya

Ini terjemahan yang lain berikut komentarnya. Kalau cuma bisa baca tapi gak tau arti sutranya jadinya tong kosong nyaring bunyinya

Chapter 15
The Merit & Virtue of Holding the Såtra

“Subhåti, a good man, or good woman, might in the morning give up as many bodies as there are grains of
sand in the Ganges River, and again at noon might give up as many bodies as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River, and again in the evening might give up as many bodies as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River, giving up bodies in that way throughout measureless millions of kalpas. But if someone else were to hear, this Såtra and believe it with no reservations, his blessings would surpass the former ones. How much the more so if people can write out, receive, hold, read, recite, and explain it for others. Subhåti, the merit and virtue of this Såtra are inexpressible, inconceivable, boundless, and beyond all praise. It is spoken by the Tathàgata for those who have set out on the Great Vehicle, those who have set out on the Supreme Vehicle. If people can receive, hold, read, recite, and speak it for others, they are completely known by the Tathàgata; they are completely seen by the Tathàgata. Such people accomplish immeasurable, inexpressible, boundless, inconceivable merit and virtue and thus sustain the Tathàgata’s Anuttarasaüyaksaübodhi.[/b]

Commentary :
Sàkyamuni Buddha again called to Empty Born, “Subhåti, if a man or a woman who cultivates the five precepts and the ten good acts, were to give up his body as many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River in the morning, at noon, and in the evening…Ÿ The Buddha had previously spoken of giving one’s body as a gift. Now he speaks of giving one’s body repeatedly, as many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River. Not only does the person give up that many bodies in the morning, he also does so at noon. Furthermore, he gives up his body as many times as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River in the evening. Nor is the offering for one day only, but for measureless millions of kalpas. Yet the blessings and virtue derived when a person merely hears the Såtra and believes it with no reservations surpass those of the person who gives up bodies as many as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River each morning, noon, and evening for measureless millions of kalpas.
With no reservations means that the listener has no certainty but believes wholeheartedly. When one uses life and body as a gift, one is merely practicing the giving of wealth. When one hears the Såtra he receives the gift of Dharma through which wisdom is obtained. In order to open enlightenment and realize Buddhahood, one requires proper wisdom. If one only, has the reward of blessings and lacks true wisdom, he cannot open enlightenment. Therefore the one who hears the Såtra and is blessed with wisdom receives greater blessings than the former. How much the more is that true when one uses pen and ink to write out the Vajra Såtra or receives, holds, reads, recites, and speaks it for others. Subhåti, the merit and virtue of the Såtra cannot be conceived of, spoken of, adequately praised or calculated. The principles of the Såtra are truly
boundless.
It is spoken by the Tathàgata for those who have set out on the Great Vehicle. The Tathàgata did not speak the Såtra for small fruit Sound-Hearers. It was for the sake of people who were initially Great Vehicle Bodhisattvas that the Såtra was spoken.
Those who have set out in the Supreme Vehicle. The Såtra was not only delivered for those who have set out in the Bodhisattva Way, but also for those who aim straight for the Buddha Way and want to take across the multitudes of living beings — that is for those of the very highest, unsurpassed Buddha Vehicle.
If a person receives, holds, reads, recites, and lectures the Såtra for others, the Tathàgata sees and knows such a person through the power of the heavenly eye. Such a person obtains inexpressible merit and virtue and sustains the work of a Buddha. He can obtain Anuttarasaüyaksaübodhi, the Unsurpassed, Proper and Equal, Right Enlightenment.

“And why? Subhåti, one who delights in lesser Dharmas is attached to a view of self, a view of others, a view of
living beings, and a view of a life. He cannot hear, receive, hold, read, or recite the Såtra or explain it for others.

“Subhåti. The gods, the men, and the asuras of the world make offerings at any place where this Såtra is found. You should know such a place is a ståpa where everyone should respectfully bow, circumambulate, and
scatter incense and flowers.


A person who takes on the responsibility of the Buddha’s work is not one who enjoys Small Vehicle dharmas. Those who study the dharmas of the Small Vehicle are attached to a view of self, which is a kind of greed. They are attached to a view of others, which is a kind of hostility. They are attached to a view of living beings and a life, which is a kind of stupidity. Such people cannot hear, receive or recite the contents of the Vajra Såtra. Because they are only fond of Small Vehicle dharmas, they are unable to receive the wonderful principles of the Great Vehicle, the Dharma of real mark which has no marks. Such people cannot believe the Vajra Såtra them-
selves nor can they explain it for others. Their hearts are too small, and their state of mind too narrow to understand Great Vehicle Dharma.
All the worldly and world-transcending living beings of the Dharmarealm, the gods, the men, and the asuras, the
latter of which are beings with the blessings of the heavens who lack the virtuous qualities of gods, should make offerings to the Såtra wherever they encounter it.
There are ten kinds of offerings:
1. Incense. The finest, most expensive incense should be offered to the Buddha. If you were to buy old incense
which shopkeepers were about to discard and bring it as an offering to the Buddha, your heart would be lacking in sincerity. On the other hand, if you were to offer Go÷ãrùa-candana,

“Ox-head SandlewoodŸ incense, your gift, involving considerable sacrifice on your part, could be considered sincere.Ox-head incense is often mentioned in the Buddha’s teachings.The øåraï gama Såtra explains that this incense was so fragrant that it could be detected within a radius of thirteen miles when it was being burned in the city of øràvastã during the Buddha’s Dharma assemblies. The Brahman woman in the Earth Store Bodhisattva Såtra sold her house and sacrificed her wealth in order to make a great offering to Enlightenment
Flower Samàdhi Self-Existent King Tathàgata. Her sincerity was so great that she sold the very roof over her head in order to make the very best offerings to the Buddha.
The reward for offering incense to the Buddha is that in the future your body will be fragrant. A rare scent con-
stantly issued from øàkyamuni Buddha’s mouth and from every pore on his body. An ordinary person’s body has such a foul odor it can be detected for miles. If you don’t believe that, just consider how a police dog is able to trace a human scent at a distance of three to five miles. However if you make offerings of incense to the Buddha with the hope of gaining a fragrant body, then you have missed the point. You should not seek for it. When your merit and virtue are sufficient your body will quite naturally be fragrant. The gods, for example, have fragrant bodies because they made offerings of incense to the Buddha in former lives. Until your merit and virtue are sufficient, you will continue to have a common stinking body no matter how much you strive to attain a fragrant odor.

2. Flowers. The finer the flowers that you offer to the Buddha, the greater the merit and virtue you receive from the offering. Do not spend all your money for good things to eat; save a little for an offering to the Buddha. The reward for offerings of flowers is that you will have perfect features and be very beautiful or extremely handsome in your next life. People will fall in love with you at first sight. Women will be strongly attracted to you if you are a man, and men will be unable to resist your beauty if you are a woman. “That is too much trouble,
you may say. “I don’t want to get involved with that. If you don’t want that kind of trouble, so much the better. øàkyamuni Buddha had perfect features as a result of offering incense and flowers to Buddhas in former lives. If
you fear the trouble a perfect appearance might bring, you can imitate Patriarch Bodhidharma who had a ragged beard and ugly features! It is up to you. However you like it, you can have it that way.
3. Lamps. If you light lamps before the Buddha, next life your eyes will be bright. You will be able to see the things other people cannot see and know the things other people cannot know. You will be able to attain the penetration of the Five Eyes, the heavenly eye, the Buddha eye, the dharma eye, the wisdom eye, and the flesh eye.
“So-and-so has the Buddha eye, you may complain.“Why don’t I have one? Of course you do not have the five
eyes; in the past you never bought one lamp to offer to the Buddha. If you want the five eyes you should quickly bring in the very finest incense and oil and light lamps before the Buddha as an offering. The merit and virtue of this kind of offering is so wonderful that as a result you can obtain the five eyes and six spiritual penetrations.
4. Necklaces. Rare jewels and gems may be placed before the Buddha as offerings.
5. Jewelled Parasols. Items used in adornment of the Buddha hall are also an acceptable offering.
6. Banners and canopies. Banners made of cloth which has been painted or stitched with adornments, or wooden plaques which have been carved with inscriptions, are offerings appropriate to place before the Buddha. You may also hang canopies like the Great Brahmà Heaven King’s net canopy which is circular and adorned with jewels.
7. Clothes. When you make or buy fine clothes you may place them on the altar before the Buddha prior
to wearing them. Only upper garments should be offered. Although the Buddha cannot wear the clothes, the offering is a gesture to express the sincerity of your heart.
8. Fruit and food. Food should be placed before the Buddha prior to being eaten. This offering as well is a gesture of respect.
9. Music. Making temple includes beating the wooden fish, playing the drum and bell, ringing the small bells, striking the gong, and singing praises. Music such as this is an offering to the Buddha.
10. Joined Palms. The tenth kind of offering is simple and does not expend any energy. This is merely placing your
palms together as an offering. You should make offerings wherever this Såtra is found. You should know such a place is a ståpa. It is a place where the Tathàgata’s true body resides, the Tathàgata’s ÷arãra.
Everyone should respectfully bow and circumambulate. Circumambulation refers to circling to the right around the
Buddha while reciting the Great Compassion Mantra or reciting the Buddha’s name. And all kinds of incense and flowers should be scattered as offerings.

[Indra]

9. Music. Making temple includes beating the wooden fish, playing the drum and bell, ringing the small bells, striking the gong, and singing praises. Music such as this is an offering to the Buddha.

Sang Buddha menganjurkan musik dan nyanyian di Mahayana sedangkan musik tidak dianjurkan dalam Theravada, tidak mungkin dua hal yg bertentangan dapat benar keduanya, pasti salah satunya salah

[ryu]

^^ mungkin ditambahkan oleh biksu pemusik belakangan

[blood_demon]

LOl. tulisan yg di bold elsol haha,sama kyk saya dulu sebenarnya lebih ke mahayana, tp begitu baca soal Bhaisajya Guru Sutra, kalo nga salah di dalam iklarnya ada sebut tentang mahayana dan hinayana. saya jd bingung. apakah pada saat itu ada mahayana dan hinayana. tp ya positif thinking aja, mungkin itu penambahan oleh penerjemah belakangan gt yg menambah nambahkan gt . hanya kemungkinan gt. hahaha 

[djoe]

“And why? Subhåti, one who delights in lesser Dharmas is attached to a view of self, a view of others, a view of
living beings, and a view of a life. He cannot hear, receive, hold, read, or recite the Såtra or explain it for others.

“Subhåti. The gods, the men, and the asuras of the world make offerings at any place where this Såtra is found. You should know such a place is a ståpa where everyone should respectfully bow, circumambulate, and
scatter incense and flowers.[/color]


A person who takes on the responsibility of the Buddha’s work is not one who enjoys Small Vehicle dharmas.

Those who study the dharmas of the Small Vehicle are attached to a view of self, which is a kind of greed. They are attached to a view of others, which is a kind of hostility.
They are attached to a view of living beings and a life, which is a kind of stupidity.

Such people cannot hear, receive or recite the contents of the Vajra Såtra. Because they are only fond of Small Vehicle dharmas, they are unable to receive the wonderful principles of the Great Vehicle, the Dharma of real mark which has no marks.
Such people cannot believe the Vajra Såtra themselves nor can they explain it for others. Their hearts are too small, and their state of mind too narrow to understand Great Vehicle Dharma.

All the worldly and world-transcending living beings of the Dharmarealm, the gods, the men, and the asuras, the
latter of which are beings with the blessings of the heavens who lack the virtuous qualities of gods, should make offerings to the Såtra wherever they encounter it.

Yang mengatakan Vajracchedika Prajna Paramita Sutra palsu adalah orang yang termasuk kutipan diatas.
Apakah Ryu salah satunya juga?

[dilbert]

Yang mengatakan Vajracchedika Prajna Paramita Sutra palsu adalah orang yang termasuk kutipan diatas.
Apakah Ryu salah satunya juga?

Kalau Vajracheddika = Sutra Mahayana... pernah-kah membanding-kan isi dan konsep Saddharmapundarika Sutra = Sutra Mahayana juga ? yang menurut saya ada "kontradiksi"-nya

[Kelana]

^^ mungkin ditambahkan oleh biksu pemusik belakangan

Saya rasa mungkin perkiraan Sdr. Ryu ada benarnya.

Coba kita perhatikan terjemahan :
9. Music. Making temple includes beating the wooden fish, playing the drum and bell, ringing the small bells, striking the gong, and singing praises. Music such as this is an offering to the Buddha.

Jika terjemahan dari Sdr. djoe itu benar maka berdasarkan pada terjemahan itu bisa dikatakan ada indikasi penambahan. Indikasinya terletak pada kata "wooden fish" (mu yu). Sepencarian saya, (CMIIW), mu yu yang biasanya disebut kentungan ini hanya ada di China. Di India, tidak ditemukan instrumen seperti ini.

[djoe]

Kalau Vajracheddika = Sutra Mahayana... pernah-kah membanding-kan isi dan konsep Saddharmapundarika Sutra = Sutra Mahayana juga ? yang menurut saya ada "kontradiksi"-nya

Saya tidak menyebut aliran, saya hanya ingin mengatakan termasuk yang manakah anda/org yg menganggap sutra tsbt palsu?
Tidakkah anda bisa melihat kebenaran yang dibabarkan tanpa melihat aliran?

[djoe]

Saya rasa mungkin perkiraan Sdr. Ryu ada benarnya.

Coba kita perhatikan terjemahan :
9. Music. Making temple includes beating the wooden fish, playing the drum and bell, ringing the small bells, striking the gong, and singing praises. Music such as this is an offering to the Buddha.

Jika terjemahan dari Sdr. djoe itu benar maka berdasarkan pada terjemahan itu bisa dikatakan ada indikasi penambahan. Indikasinya terletak pada kata "wooden fish" (mu yu). Sepencarian saya, (CMIIW), mu yu yang biasanya disebut kentungan ini hanya ada di China. Di India, tidak ditemukan instrumen seperti ini.

Tidak bisakah anda membedakan antara commentary dan sutra?

[Indra]

Saya tidak menyebut aliran, saya hanya ingin mengatakan termasuk yang manakah anda/org yg menganggap sutra tsbt palsu?
Tidakkah anda bisa melihat kebenaran yang dibabarkan tanpa melihat aliran?

tahukah anda bahwa mahayana sama sekali bukan aliran, mahayana adalah sejenis kendaraan

[dilbert]

Saya tidak menyebut aliran, saya hanya ingin mengatakan termasuk yang manakah anda/org yg menganggap sutra tsbt palsu?
Tidakkah anda bisa melihat kebenaran yang dibabarkan tanpa melihat aliran?

Kalau membandingkan Kitab Theravada dan Mahayana tentu-nya tidak akan Apple to Apple... menurut logis saya, kalau suatu ajaran (baik Theravada maupun Mahayana) yang baik, tentu-nya konsep / doktrin-nya harus sealur, tidak cross reference, nyambung dari depan sampai belakang, tidak kontradiksi satu sama lain.

Nah... mau melihat "kekacauan" Kitab-Kitab Mahayana, Coba pelajari Vajracheddika Sutra (Sutra Intan) dan Saddharmapundarika sutra (Sutra Teratai), 2 kitab utama aliran Mahayana...

[Kelana]

Tidak bisakah anda membedakan antara commentary dan sutra?

Apakah saya sedang mengomentari sutra?