[ask] tumimbal lahir [theravada vers] ?

[tula]

halo men temeen .. terutama team penyusun ebook n buku Komentar Anattalakkhana Sutta dan Malukyaputta Sutta, saya baru baca awal2, pas di bagian
"sesaat sebelum kesadaran kematian berhenti pada saat kematian, ia berpegangan pada salah satu dari obyek obyek kamma yaitu, kamma, kamma nimitta atau gati nimitta. Dikondisikan demikian oleh obyek obyek (yang menjadi pegangan) pada saat kesadaran terakhir, maka kesadaran baru muncul dalam kehidupan baru. Ini disebut kelahiran kembali atau kesadaran yang menghubungkan kembali karena ia membentuk hubungan antara kehidupan sebelumnya dan kehidupan baru.
Ketika kesadaran yang menghubungkan kembali lenyap, maka diikuti dengan kesadaran Bhavanga, kelanjutan kehidupan yang berkesinambungan sepanjang kehidupan seperti yang di tentukan oleh kekuatan kamma sebelumnya."

terutama yg saya bold ....
pada saat sebelum si A koit ... kesadaran itu masi berada pada si A, dan berpegangan pada kamma, "pas" ketika si A koit beneran, si B lahir di ikuti kesadaran nya sendiri ... berarti si A n B kan berbeda ? dan gada hubungan antara kehidupan sebelum dan kehidupan baru ? kecuali kesadaran si A lompat ke ke si B ? (jadi kaya roh aje)

mohon penjelasannya, saya dari dulu masi lom bisa memahami dengan baik, walaupun uda di kasi penjelasan contoh seperti api lilin yg menyala, ketika lilin A mau abis .. di sambung ken ke lilin B apakah API lilin A = B ? kalo di lilin ini kan jelas2 .. API nya di sambungken ?

mohon yg paham dan yg thera mind yg jawab ya ? supaya gamakin bercampur dan makin bingun ...
bacanya sementara stuck disono nih .. soalnay di bawahnya di tulis gede2 n BOLD .. tanpa memahami cara atta mengikat, konsep anatta tidak mungkin di pahami sepenuhnya, kalo kelamaan cari jawabannya tar jadi males ga lanjut bacanya.
makaci.

[Kelana]

Menurut saya, sebenarnya perumpamaan api lilin juga sudah tepat. Demikian yang saya pahami, (CMIIW).

Api pada lilin, Sdr. Tula, ia selalu berubah-ubah dan tidak sama setiap saat meskipun kita merasa api tersebut tetap itu-itu saja. Api satu menit yang lalu berbeda dengan api 2 menit kemudian. Hal ini karena bahan bakarnya yaitu oksigen, sumbu, dan lilin juga selalu berbeda meskipun terlihat sama. Dalam fisika, oksigen terbentuk dari banyak molekul (bagian-bagian kecil), dan api menggunakannya (menghisap) molekul-molekul ini setiap saat sebanyak oksigen yang ada agar ia tetap hidup. Seperti kita makan snack chiki, sebagian-sebagian bulat-bulat chiki tersebut kita makan. Meskipun sama-sama bulat tapi bukan berarti kita makan bulatan yang itu-itu saja.

Begitu juga dengan sumbu dan lilin yang digunakan, setiap mili sumbu dan lilin adalah berbeda. Karena semuanya berbeda maka akibat atau hasilnya juga berbeda yaitu api yang berbeda tiap saat.

Nah, ketika dikatakan “memindahkan” api ke lilin yang lain, sebenarnya itu hanyalah proses memperpanjang atau menambahkan bahan bakar saja. Karena kita tidak INGIN api tersebut mati maka kita menambahkannya dengan menyediakan lilin baru. Kita bisa saja menambahkan atau menempelkan lilin atau sumbu lagi pada lilin yang lama tapi itu merepotkan. Tapi tetap saja penambahan tersebut juga merupakan bentuk baru, baik dari lilin, sumbu, dan oksigen, meskipun jenisnya sama. Dan api yang muncul pada lilin baru juga sebenarnya api yang berbeda dari api di lilin lama, karena lilinnya, sumbunya, oksigennya juga baru, meskipun jenisnya sama. Tanpa kekuatan keinginan untuk menambah lilin maka api baru tidak akan pernah muncul.

Jadi api pada lilin lama berbeda dengan api pada lilin baru meskipun terlihat sama. Hal ini juga terjadi dalam rebirth. Kesadaran lama (pada kehidupan lama) akan berbeda dengan kesadaran baru saat rebirth.

Jika keduanya berbeda, berarti kita tidak perlu bertanggungjawab donk atas apa yang telah terjadi pada kehidupan sebelumnya? Tidak demikian. Karena keberadaan kita sekarang adalah akibat dari kemelekatan dan karma-karma kita terdahulu.

Sama seperti api pada lilin. Karena KEINGINAN untuk memperpanjang masa kehidupan api dan TINDAKAN menambah lilin maka api yang baru menyala.

TINDAKAN, KEINGINAN, KEMELEKATAN inilah yang memberikan benang merah yang mengharuskan kita bertanggungjawab, menerima hasil dari apa yang kita perbuat.

 

[tula]

sip ada yg reply ...

tp kalo api lilin .. kalo ga di sambung kan .. maka api itu ga bakal bisa menyala (kecuali emang di nyalakan lagi pake korek etc), lah ini pada kesadaran terakir ke janin di perut ibu .. gimana nyambung nya ? di tempel in aja kaga ? kesadaran nya melompat gitu aja ? (jadi roh dunk)

ok , kalo kita katakan kalo karena masi ada kamma yg tersisa itu lah yg sebabin kesadaran itu berpindah dari si A ke si B ... nah yg tula ga ngerti itu .. kok bisa pindah gitu .., bisa2 akhirnya ya kita ga bisa tau karena lom mencapai hal itu, faith factor dunk ?

aku rasa ini harus dipahami, dan saya masi lom paham jg .. masi faith factor .. hikz T_____________________T" (bukan faith factor jg sih asli nya .. grey factor >.<")

[dilbert]

sip ada yg reply ...

tp kalo api lilin .. kalo ga di sambung kan .. maka api itu ga bakal bisa menyala (kecuali emang di nyalakan lagi pake korek etc), lah ini pada kesadaran terakir ke janin di perut ibu .. gimana nyambung nya ? di tempel in aja kaga ? kesadaran nya melompat gitu aja ? (jadi roh dunk)

ok , kalo kita katakan kalo karena masi ada kamma yg tersisa itu lah yg sebabin kesadaran itu berpindah dari si A ke si B ... nah yg tula ga ngerti itu .. kok bisa pindah gitu .., bisa2 akhirnya ya kita ga bisa tau karena lom mencapai hal itu, faith factor dunk ?

aku rasa ini harus dipahami, dan saya masi lom paham jg .. masi faith factor .. hikz T_____________________T" (bukan faith factor jg sih asli nya .. grey factor >.<")

sesuai dengan jawab dari sdr.Kelana...

TINDAKAN, KEINGINAN, KEMELEKATAN inilah yang memberikan benang merah yang mengharuskan kita bertanggungjawab, menerima hasil dari apa yang kita perbuat.

inilah yang menyambung api itu... kalau mau mengetahui bagaimana proses-nya... ya susah... gak bisa didokumentasikan...   

[Sukma Kemenyan]

Anatta & Rebirth -- http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=5428.0

[Johsun]

Gak bisa didokumentasikan berarti gak ada bukti. Kalau gak ada bukti berarti gak sesuai dngan ehi pak ciko, dan juga gak sesuai dngan kalama, oleh karenanya jangan semata mata mempercayai akan hal getoan, sebelum ada bukti yg konGkEt dan NyAtA.

[ryu]

Gak bisa didokumentasikan berarti gak ada bukti. Kalau gak ada bukti berarti gak sesuai dngan ehi pak ciko, dan juga gak sesuai dngan kalama, oleh karenanya jangan semata mata mempercayai akan hal getoan, sebelum ada bukti yg konGkEt dan NyAtA.

yah kalo mau gampang mah jawabnya, anak sd juga tau pasti diatur ama Tuhan

[Indra]

Gak bisa didokumentasikan berarti gak ada bukti. Kalau gak ada bukti berarti gak sesuai dngan ehi pak ciko, dan juga gak sesuai dngan kalama, oleh karenanya jangan semata mata mempercayai akan hal getoan, sebelum ada bukti yg konGkEt dan NyAtA.

Silahkan anda buktikan sendiri. ini bukan tidak bisa dibuktikan, keterbatasan andalah yg tidak memungkinkan pembuktian ini. banyak orang lain yg telah membuktikan.

[ryu]

Rebirth

QUESTION: Where do we humans come from and where are we going?
ANSWER: There are three possible answers to this question. Those who believe in a god or gods usually claims that before individuals are created, they do not exist, then they come into being through the will of a god. They live their lives and then, according to what they believe or do during their life, they go either to eternal heaven or eternal hell. There are others, humanists and scientists, who claims that the individual comes into being at conception due to natural causes, lives and then at death, cease to exist. Buddhism does not accept either of these explanations. The first gives rise to many ethical problems. If a good god really creates each of us, it is difficult to explain why so many people are born with the most dreadful deformities or why so many babies are miscarried just before birth or are still-born. Another problem with the theistic explanation is that it seems very unjust that a person should suffer eternal pain in hell for what they did in just 60 or 70 years on earth. Sixty or 70 years of non-beliefs or immoral living does not seem to deserve eternal torture. Likewise, 60 or 70 years of virtuous living seems a very small outlay for eternal bliss in heaven. The second explanation is better than the first and has more scientific evidence to support it but still leaves important questions unanswered. How can a phenomenon so amazingly complex as human consciousness develop from the simple meeting the sperm and the egg and in just nine months? And now that parapsychology is a recognized branch of science, phenomena like telepathy are increasingly difficult to fit into the materialistic model of the mind.

Buddhism offers the most satisfactory explanation of where humans come from and where they are going. When we die, the mind with all the tendencies, preferences, abilities and characteristics that have been developed and conditioned in this life, re-establishes itself in a fertilized egg. Thus the individual grows, is reborn and develops a personality conditioned both by the mental characteristics that have been carried over from the last life and by the new environment. The personality will change and be modified by conscious effort and conditioning factors like education, parental influence and society and once again at death, re-establish itself in a new fertilized egg. This process of dying and being reborn will continue until the conditions that cause it, craving and ignorance, cease. When they do, instead of being reborn, the mind attains a state called Nirvana and this is the ultimate goal of Buddhism and the purpose of life.

QUESTION: How does the mind go from one body to another?
ANSWER: Think of being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made up of words and music but energy at different frequencies, are transmitted, move through space, are attracted to and picked up by the receiver from where they are broadcast as words and music. It is similar with the mind. At death, mental energy moves through space, is attracted to and picked up by the fertilized egg. As the embryo grows, it centers itself in the brain from where it later ‘broadcasts’ itself as the new personality.

QUESTION: Is one always reborn as a human being?
ANSWER: No, there are several realms in which one can be reborn. Some people are reborn in heaven, some are reborn in hell, some are reborn as hungry spirits and so on. Heaven is not so much a place as a state of existence where one has a subtle body and where the mind experiences mainly pleasure. Like all conditioned states, heaven is impermanent and when one's life span there is finished, one could well be reborn again as a human. Hell, likewise, is not a place but a state of existence where one has a subtle body and where the mind experiences mainly anxiety and distress. Being reborn as a hungry ghost, again, is a state of being where the body is subtle and where the mind is continually plagued by longing and dissatisfaction. So heavenly beings experience mainly pleasure, hell beings and hungry spirits experience mainly pain and human beings experience usually a mixture of both. The main difference between the human realm and other realms is the body type and the quality of experience.

QUESTION: What decides where a person will be reborn?
ANSWER: The most important factor, but not the only one, influencing where we will be reborn and what sort of life we shall have, is kamma. The word kamma means 'action' and refers to our intentional mental actions. In other words, what we are is determined very much by how we have thought and acted in the past. Likewise, how we think and act now will influence how we will be in the future. The gentle, loving type of person tends to be reborn in a heaven realm or as a human being who has a predominance of pleasant experiences. The anxious, worried or extremely cruel type of person tends to be reborn in a hell realm or as a human being who has a predominance of unpleasant experiences. The person who develops obsessive craving, fierce longings and burning ambitions that can never be satisfied tends to be reborn as a hungry spirit or as a human being frustrated by longing and wanting. Whatever mental habits are strongly developed in this life will simply continue in the next life. Most people, however, are reborn as human being.

QUESTION: So we are not determined by our kamma, we can change it.
ANSWER: Of course we can. That is why one of the steps on the Noble Eightfold Path is Perfect Effort. It depends on our sincerity, how much energy we exert and how strong the habit is. But it is true that some people simply go through life under the influence of their past habits, without making an effort to change them and falling victim to their unpleasant results. Such people will continue to suffer unless they change their negative habits. The longer the negative habits remain, the more difficult they are to change. The Buddhist understands this and take advantage of each and every opportunity to break mental habits that have unpleasant results and to develop ones that have a pleasant result. Meditation is one of the techniques used to modify the habit patterns of the mind as is speaking or refraining from speaking, acting or refraining from acting in certain ways. The whole of the Buddhist life is a training to purify and free the mind. For example, if being patient and kind were a pronounced part of your character in your last life, such tendencies would re-emerge in the present life. If they are encouraged and developed in the present life they will re-emerge even stronger and more pronounced in the future life. This is based upon the simple and observable fact that long established habits tend to be difficult to break.

Now, when you are patient and kind, it tends to happen that you are not easily ruffled by others, you don't hold grudges, people like you and thus your experiences tends to be happier. Take another example. Let us say that you came into life with tendency to be patient and kind due to your mental habits in the past life. But in the present life you neglect to strengthen and develop such tendencies. They would gradually weaken and die out and perhaps be completely absent in the future life. Patience and kindness being weak in this case, there is a possibility that in either this life or in the next life, a short temper, anger and cruelty could grow and develop, bringing with them all the unpleasant experiences such attitudes create.

We will take one last example. Let us say that due to your mental habits in the last life, you came into the present life with the tendency to be short-tempered and angry and you realize that such habits only cause unpleasantness. If you are only able to weaken such tendencies, they would re-emerge in the next life where with a bit more effort, they could be eliminated completely and you could be free from their unpleasant effects.

QUESTION: You have talked a lot about rebirth but is there any proof that we are reborn when we die?
ANSWER: Not only is there scientific evidence to support the Buddhist belief in rebirth, it is the only after-life theory that has any evidence to support it. There is not a scrap of evidence to prove the existence of heaven and of course evidence of annihilation at death must be lacking. But during the last 30 years, parapsychologists have been studying reports that some people have vivid memories of their former lives. For example, in England, a 5 year old girl said she could remember her ‘other mother and father’ and she talked vividly about what sounded like the events in the life of another person. Parapsychologists were called in and they asked hundreds of questions to which the girl gave answers. She spoke of living in a particular village in what appeared to be Spain, she gave the name of the village, the name of the street she lived in, her neighbors' names and details about her everyday life there. She also tearfully spoke of how she had been struck by a car and died of her injuries two days later. When these details were checked, they were found to be accurate. There was a village in Spain with the name the girl had given. There was a house of the type she had described in the street she had named. What is more, it was found that a 23-year old woman living in the house had been killed in a car accident 5 years before. Now how is it possible for a 5 year old girl living in England and who had never been to Spain to know all these details? And of course, this is not the only case of this type. Professor Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia's Department of Psychology has described dozens of cases of this type in his books. He is an accredited scientist whose 25 year study of people who remember former lives is very strong evidence for the Buddhist teaching of rebirth.*


*See Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation and Cases of Reincarnation Type, University Press of Virginia, Charlotteville, 1975.


QUESTION: Some people might say that the supposed ability to remember former lives is the work of devils.
ANSWER: You simply cannot dismiss everything that doesn't fit into your belief as being the work of devils. When cold hard facts are produced to support an idea, you must use rational and logical arguments if you wish to counter them - not irrational and superstitious talk about devils.

QUESTION: You could say that talk about rebirth a bit superstitious also?
ANSWER: The dictionary defines superstition as 'a belief which is not based on reason or fact but on an association of ideas, as in magic.' If you can show me a careful study of the existence of devils written by a scientist I will concede that belief in devils is not superstition. But I have never heard of any research into devils; scientists simply wouldn't bother to study such things, so I say there is no evidence for the existence of devils. But as we have just seen, there is evidence which seems to suggest that rebirth does take place. If belief in rebirth is based on at least some facts, it cannot be a superstition.

QUESTION: Well, have there been any scientist who believe in rebirth?
ANSWER: Yes. Thomas Huxley, who was responsible for having science introduced into the British school system in the 19th century and who was the first scientist to defend Darwin's theories, believed that reincarnation was a very plausible idea. In his famous book Evolution and Ethics and other Essays, he says:


‘In the doctrine of transmigration, whatever its origin, Brahmanical and Buddhist speculation found, ready to hand, the means of constructing a plausible vindication of the ways of the Cosmos to man ... Yet this plea of justification is not less plausible than others; and none but very hasty thinkers will reject it on the ground of inherent absurdity. Like the doctrine of evolution itself, that of transmigration has its roots in the world of reality; and it may claim such support as the great argument from analogy is capable of supplying.’


Professor Gustaf Stromberg, the famous Swedish astronomer, physicist and friend of Einstein also found the idea of rebirth appealing.


‘Opinions differ whether human souls can be reincarnated on the earth or not. In 1936 a very interesting case was thoroughly investigated and reported by the government authorities in India. A girl (Shanti Devi from Delhi) could accurately describe her previous life (at Muttra, five hundred miles from Delhi) which ended about a year before her "second birth". She gave the name of her husband and child and described her home and life history. The investigating commission brought her to her former relatives, who verified all her statements. Among the people of India reincarnations are regarded as commonplace; the astonishing thing for them in this case was the great number of facts the girl remembered. This and similar cases can be regarded as additional evidence for the theory of the indestructibility of memory.’


Professor Julian Huxley, the distinguished British scientist who was Director General of UNESCO believed that rebirth was quite in harmony with scientific thinking.


‘There is nothing against a permanently surviving spirit-individuality being in some way given off at death, as a definite wireless message is given off by a sending apparatus working in a particular way. But it must be remembered that the wireless message only becomes a message again when it comes in contact with a new, material structure - the receiver. It ... would never think or feel unless again 'embodied' in some way. Our personalities are so based on body that it is really impossible to think of survival which would be in any true sense personal without a body of sorts ... I can think of something being given off which would bear the same relation to men and women as a wireless message to the transmitting apparatus; but in that case 'the dead' would, so far as one can see, be nothing but disturbances of different patterns wandering through the universe until ... they ... came back to actuality of consciousness by making contact with something which could work as a receiving apparatus for mind.’


Even very practical and down-to-earth people like the American industrialist Henry Ford found the idea or rebirth acceptable. Ford was attracted to the idea because it gives one a second chance to develop oneself. Henry Ford said:


‘I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I was twenty-six... Religion offered nothing to the point... Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is futile if we cannot utilize the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation it was as if I had found a universal plan. I realized that there was a chance to work out my ideas. Time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock... Genius is experience. Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent, but it is the fruit of long experience in many lives. Some are older souls than others, and so they know more... The discovery of Reincarnation put my mind at ease... If you preserve a record of this conversation, write it so that it puts men's minds at ease. I would like to communicate to others the calmness that the long view of life gives to us.’
So the Buddhist teachings of rebirth does have some scientific basis, it is logically consistent and it goes a long way to answering some important questions about human destiny. But it is also very comforting. According to Buddha, if you failed to attain Nirvana in this life, you will have the opportunity to try again next time. If you have made mistakes in this life, you will be able to correct yourself in the next life. You will truly be able to learn from your mistakes. Things you were unable to do or achieve in this life may well become possible in the next life. What a wonderful teaching!


QUESTION: All this is very intellectually satisfying but I must admit that I am still a bit skeptical.
ANSWER: That’s okay. Buddhism is not the type of religion you have to sign up to and commit yourself to believe everything it teaches. What is the point of forcing yourself to believe things you just can’t believe? You can still practice those things that you find helpful, accept those ideas that you understand and benefit from them without believing in rebirth. Who knows! In time you may come to see the truth of rebirth.




*kalo mau baca yang indonya beli ajah di gramedia yak, judulnya Good Question Good Answer

[Johsun]

Seperti kata seorg sdr muslim, ; pembuktian hal tsb  subyektif banggeT

[Johsun]

Oleh karena itu, kelahiran kembali dalam buddhis entah reinkarnasi atau ribet , yang jelas ribet hanyalah MITOS dan MUSTAHil, tidak dapat dibuktikan secara saint , dan tidak dapat memberi bukti kepada semua manusia, kecuali hanya sekelmpok manusia penipu yg ngaku2 ada bukti ribet dsb,
 

[Edward]

Apakah ada bukti penciptaan manusia?Apakah ada yg bisa membuktikan secara sains kehadiran si penguasa itu?

Jika kita berbicara secara kebalik, Tuhan hanyalah MITOS, DONGENG, FOLKLORE...Penciptaan Adam dan Hawa apalagi, sungguh2 MUSTAHAL DAN BOHONG belaka..

Apakah akan ada akhirnya?Klo bro Jhonson percaya dengan pilihan keyakinannya, silahkan saja...
Toh pada akhirnya mempermasalahkan hal2 yg memank belum dapat dibuktikan sendiri adalah nonsense...

[El Sol]

Oleh karena itu, kelahiran kembali dalam buddhis entah reinkarnasi atau ribet , yang jelas ribet hanyalah MITOS dan MUSTAHil, tidak dapat dibuktikan secara saint , dan tidak dapat memberi bukti kepada semua manusia, kecuali hanya sekelmpok manusia penipu yg ngaku2 ada bukti ribet dsb,
 

sebenarnya ada bukti2nya..

cuma gk di expose ajah..karena majority masih agama K dan I..

banyak kok orang2 yg terlahir masih inget masa lalu dia..

dan bahkan dah bisa liat masa lalu dengan cara dihipnotis...

loenya ajah outdated!..

kerjaannya tiap ari nungging2 pantat 100 kale seh...

yah bego lar otak loe..

neh bukti inkarnasi..!!

hxxp://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/

baca pelan2 yak..

duh gw lupa...English loe ancur banget khan?..huahuahua...gk ada kamma baek yg cukup untuk bisa mengerti reinkarnasi neh!..huahuahuahua..

gw kok jadi kasian yak ama loe...

[tula]

TINDAKAN, KEINGINAN, KEMELEKATAN inilah yang memberikan benang merah yang mengharuskan kita bertanggungjawab, menerima hasil dari apa yang kita perbuat.

yap saya mengerti benang merah itu, kondisi benang merah ini sama dengan unzur2 yg meng buat benda itu disebut sebagai lilin (ada parafin, sumbu, dll), tp si api ini harus di tempelkan ke sumbu di lilin B agar si lilin B ini hidup kan ? meskipun semua unzur uda lengkap, kalo si api kaga di tempelkan ke lilin B , ya ga bisa hidup ... nah itu .. dimanakah tindakan nempelin "api (kesadaran)" dari si A ke si janin B ....

Anatta & Rebirth -- http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=5428.0

makasi menyan ... ini jg buka2 ..tar respon dibawah lagi .. sambil baca2

Seperti kata seorg sdr muslim, ; pembuktian hal tsb  subyektif banggeT

jgn libatkan ajaran lain disini,kalo ajaran lain di libatkan makin rancu

dan JELAS2 ajaran lain itu SANGAT JAUH2 LEBIH GA MASUK DI AKAL DARI PADA AJARAN2 BUDDHA GAOTAMA, isinya cuman ajaran percaya gue ye .. ga percaya noh ke neroko , itu bukan ajaran tp perbudakan

disini saya bertanya karena saya berusaha utk memahami lebih dalam dari apa yg selama ini saya dapetkan, sampe di level yg saya dapat kan selama ini aja jelas2 gada ajaran lain yg lebih mengena dari ajaran SB ini

[at] ci Lily : itu justru yg Kemenyan permasalahkan...... siapa yang bawa2 tuh ingatan  laugh

Pasti ga akan nyambung kalo menggunakan bahasa sehari2 dalam membahas bahasa Dhamma..... bahasa sehari2 melihat secara fisik, bahasa Dhamma membahas mengenai "hakekat sesungguhnya"

Itu yang dari awal saya udah berusaha pisahkan....  Grin

padahal kalo mo liat fisik, yah silahkan cari dulu juga dimana "ingatan" itu........ karena secara fisik, ingatan itu sendiri pun juga ngga ada kok......

ini ada komentar dari mas markos yg mendukung jg saya bawa dari thread yg di kasi menyan, apa memang g bisa dijelaskan dengan bahasa sehari2 ya ... sama seperti deskripsi parinibbana (tp masi bisa di deskripsikan seperti api di lilin itu .. dan pas menurut saya)

dari thread yg kemenyan kasi .. banyak contoh2 bagus yg di berikan :
keju n susu
air di sungai
bola biliar

saya menangkap esensi nya (uda dari dulu sih ... memang penjelasannya begini), tp baru kemaren dapet pertanyaan di thread ini, smua contoh2 itu memiliki bentuk fisik yg bisa dijelaskan dan dilihat dengan mata, sedangkan proses timbulnya kesadaran setelah kesadaran terakir dari orang yg meninggal ini ga bisa di lihat dengan mata dan tidak berbentuk fisik, hal inilah yg penjelasaanya dan penalarannya repot banget wekekekekkekee

ok aku lanjut dah bacanya ... uda sampe bagian ke 2 (pikiran dan perasaan jg tidak kekal), yg ada waktu .. dibaca ya .. bagus banget dah ...

ok case closed dah, utk para sepuh yg mau jelasin lagi lebih mendalam bole jg sih (atau mau kasi contoh yg lebih yahuy sip banget dah)

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saya tambahakan setelah mau reply ternyata ada post baru lagi

Oleh karena itu, kelahiran kembali dalam buddhis entah reinkarnasi atau ribet , yang jelas ribet hanyalah MITOS dan MUSTAHil, tidak dapat dibuktikan secara saint , dan tidak dapat memberi bukti kepada semua manusia, kecuali hanya sekelmpok manusia penipu yg ngaku2 ada bukti ribet dsb,
 

blom bisa dijelaskan bukan berarti ga bisa, dari 2500 taon yg lalu jg saint lom bisa jelasin kalo ada matahari2 yg lain di luar matahari di atas bumi ini .. tp skrg sudah bisa ..
lain dengan ajaran lain .. dari dulu isinya SALAH smua , di paksa di bener2 in, or kalo ada yg bisa kasi penjelasan yg melawan ajaran tersebut di musnaken ... or kalo uda terpaksa, bikin pengakuan tertulis di surat kabar MINTA MAAP YE dulu gue melawan ajaran loe ....

memahami sesuatu itu emang ribet, kalo gamau ribet lebih baik masuk ke ajaran lain .. enak .. tinggal duduk percaya masup surga .. wuiw .. mala ada yg ditemenin bidadari .. kweren

kok jadi FLAME AREA YA

[El Sol]

 [at] ALL

just for your Information..

Jhonson pengikut aliran sesat Maitreya..

yg percaya Tuhan, dan reinkarnasi...

Shalom!