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Offline andrew

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #90 on: 09 October 2008, 09:15:27 PM »

Dan ada pula bahan lain untuk menentang. Sayang saya sedang lupa di mana gerangan hal itu berada.
Saya akan kabarkan lagi.

tolong dong dikasih... untuk menambah wawasan...


pandangan saya pribadi...

terlepas dari semua peraturan pro kontra...

dalam pandangan saya, bila wanita ingin menjalankan kehidupan suci...
yang tidak hanya menjalankan dasasila, tapi ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni...

tentunya itu merupakan niat baik, niat mensucikan diri

seperti seorang pria, yang pada awalnya cuma menjalankan 5 sila, kemudian menambah menjadi 8 sila, kemudian menjalankan 10 sila...

kemudian setelah menjalankan 10 sila, bertekad menjalankan vinaya bhikku , 227 peraturan...
tentunya ini niat baik, karma baik...


apakah kemudian wanita yang dari 10 sila ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni untuk mensucikan diri,
ini akan menjadi karma buruk buat dirinya?

apakah seorang wanita yang ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni akan menambah loba moha dosa?
sehingga menimbulkan karma buruk ?

ataukah vinaya bhikkuni merupakan sarana mengikis loba moha dosa? bila ya, kenapa wanita tidak boleh menjalankan vinaya ini? dengan alasan sudah punah silsilahnya....

apakah kesucian dicapai berdasarkan silsilah ? atau berdasarkan sila samadhi dan panna ?

apakah karena sudah tidak ada silsilah, wanita yang menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni menjadi melakukan karma buruk? vinaya bhikkuni sejalan dengan sila ... atau bertentangan dengan sila? kenapa menjadi karma buruk ?



saya bukan ingin berdebat... cuma bertanya saja... soal kebingungan ini ...


 _/\_

« Last Edit: 09 October 2008, 09:17:10 PM by andrew »

Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #91 on: 10 October 2008, 09:33:43 AM »
Kalau ada pria yang memenuhi syarat, mau menjadi Bhikkhu, tapi tinggal di tempat terpencil, tidak punya ongkos ke luar negeri, gimana?
Ngotot? Melekat? Menahbiskan diri sendiri?

Ambil contoh Sayalay Dipankara, wanita menjalankan 10 sila, guru meditasi yang saya hormati. Beliau tidak melekat pada keharusan menjadi Bhikkhuni.

Saya tahu masing-masing punya alasan sendiri. Kalau mau mendukung, silahkan. Kalau mau menentang silahkan. Kalau mau menahbiskan Bhikkhuni dengan cara mencari Bhikkhuni Mahayana, silahkan, tapi pergunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta yang dipergunakan Bhikkhuni Mahayana.
Yang jadi masalah yang campur-campur, yang ngotot. Setelah itu mempermasalahkan kesetaraan gender, karma baik, menjelek-jelekkan. Padahal masing-masing punya kebijaksanaan masing-masing.

Dan saya kira para Bhikkhu berhak bilang sesuatu bertentangan atau tidak dengan Dhamma yang diajarkan Sang Buddha.
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Offline markosprawira

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #92 on: 10 October 2008, 10:06:53 AM »
pandangan saya pribadi...

terlepas dari semua peraturan pro kontra...

secara pribadi, saya juga salah satu yg pro dengan pembentukan kembali sangha bhikkhuni

dalam pandangan saya, bila wanita ingin menjalankan kehidupan suci...
yang tidak hanya menjalankan dasasila, tapi ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni...

tentunya itu merupakan niat baik, niat mensucikan diri

seperti seorang pria, yang pada awalnya cuma menjalankan 5 sila, kemudian menambah menjadi 8 sila, kemudian menjalankan 10 sila...

kemudian setelah menjalankan 10 sila, bertekad menjalankan vinaya bhikku , 227 peraturan...
tentunya ini niat baik, karma baik...

betul sekali...... niat baik ini adalah kusala mano kamma = kamma baik yang dilakukan via pikiran

apakah kemudian wanita yang dari 10 sila ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni untuk mensucikan diri,
ini akan menjadi karma buruk buat dirinya?

niat untuk mensucikan diri sendiri adalah kusala mano kamma.........


apakah seorang wanita yang ingin menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni akan menambah loba moha dosa?
sehingga menimbulkan karma buruk ?

Tergantung apakah dia melekat pada vinaya itu atau tidak. Sering terjadi pada kita dimana sesuatu yang baik itu dilekati.
Misal ibu yang ingin anaknya jadi pintar, lalu marah pada waktu anaknya malas belajar
Ini menunjukkan lobha/kemelekatan ibu pada "niat baiknya", sehingga pada waktu anak tidak berbuat seperti yang "diharapkan", ibu menjadi marah/dosa

Hal sama pada vinaya. Jangan jauh2, kita sendiri pada waktu menjalankan atta sila saja. yang notabene adalah hal yang baik, sering jadi objek akusala.
Bisa muncul lobha pada waktu makan siang (yang terakhir)
Bisa juga muncul dosa pada waktu rasa lapar muncul
belum jika kita sudah terbiasa dengan hal2 lain, misal mendengarkan musik, menonton TV, dsbnya.........


ataukah vinaya bhikkuni merupakan sarana mengikis loba moha dosa? bila ya, kenapa wanita tidak boleh menjalankan vinaya ini? dengan alasan sudah punah silsilahnya....

vinaya adalah sila juga, yang notabene dapat mengikis LDM yang paling kasar/rendah

disini bro harus membedakan antara vinaya sebagai peraturan organisasi Sangha, dengan menjalankan vinaya sebagai sila untuk perorangan.
Walau menjalankan vinaya itu kamma baik namun organisasi punya peraturan masing-masing

apakah kesucian dicapai berdasarkan silsilah ? atau berdasarkan sila samadhi dan panna ?

Dengan banyak menjalankan sila, samadhi dan panna, kita akan terlahir setidaknya ke keluarga yang lebih baik.
Itu kenapa Sidhattha lahir di keluarga kerajaan, bukan di rakyat jelata

apakah karena sudah tidak ada silsilah, wanita yang menjalankan vinaya bhikkuni menjadi melakukan karma buruk? vinaya bhikkuni sejalan dengan sila ... atau bertentangan dengan sila? kenapa menjadi karma buruk ?

Tidak ada yang bilang bahwa menjalankan vinaya adalah kamma buruk selama itu dijalankan di luar organisasi.

Namun yang disebut oleh bro Karuna, adalah jika masuk organisasi..... silahkan dilihat kembali
Quote
Istilahnya adalah : theyyasaṃvāsaka
Dia yang tinggal di perkumpulan dengan pencurian.

saya bukan ingin berdebat... cuma bertanya saja... soal kebingungan ini ... _/\_

tahun 2004-2005, saya juga mengalami kebingungan itu juga....... bahkan suasana waktu itu sempat "panas" apalagi opini perorangan beberapa bhikkhu juga sebenarnya "tidak bermasalah" dengan pendirian bhikkhuni

namun seperti yang anda bilang sendiri, walau culavagga 10 belum pernah dicabut namun peraturan terakhir Buddha menyebutkan bahwa Bhikkhuni harus ditahbiskan oleh Sangha Bhikkhuni.

sebenarnya Bhikkhuni masih jalan di beberapa negara seperti Myanmar, dimana ayya santini waktu itu diupasampada oleh salah satu sekte disana (kalo ga salah sekte Gupta..cmiiw)
namun sekte ini tidak diakui oleh theravada, karena walau mengaku Theravada tetapi sekte ini "katanya" awalnya dari mahayana...

jadi sejarahnya amat sangat panjang sekali........

semoga kali ini, diskusinya tidak membawa suasana panas lagi  _/\_

Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #93 on: 10 October 2008, 10:32:03 AM »

The Revival of Bhikkhunī Ordination
in the Theravāda Tradition


Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi



My paper focuses on the legal and ethical issues involved in the revival of the Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha. The paper is divided into three parts. In Part I, I review the arguments presented by Theravādin traditionalists who see a revival of bhikkhunī ordination as a legal impossibility. In Part II, I offer textual and ethical considerations that support the claim that bhikkhunī ordination should be restored. And in Part III, I briefly consider the legal mechanics of restoring the bhikkhunī ordination to the Theravāda tradition, that is, how the ordination can best be harmonized with the stipulations of the Vinaya.

Monastic ordination as a bhikkhunī involves three stages: (1) pabbajjā, the novice ordination; (2) the sikkhamānā training; and (3) upasampadā or full ordination. Theravādin Vinaya experts posit hurdles at all three stages. In my paper, I discuss all three stages from two points of view: in terms of the objections posed by the conservative legalists, who claim that it is impossible to revive them; and from the point of view of those who favor reviving the bhikkhunī ordination. Since the time allotted for the oral presentation is limited, I will be focusing exclusively on the upasampadā. To anticipate my conclusion: I hold that neither position can be derived unambiguously from the Vinaya, but that interpretation depends upon the setting under which the interpretation of the Vinaya is made and the set of presuppositions and purposes that the interpreters bring to the task of interpretation.


I. The Case Against the Revival of Bhikkhunī Ordination

For Vinaya legalists, the upasampadā presents the most formidable barrier to reviving the Bhikkhunī Sangha. The main legal objection the legalists raise against bhikkhunī upasampadā is that it is a dual-ordination. It must be given by both the Bhikkhunī Sangha and the Bhikkhu Sangha, and to be a purely Theravāda ordination it must come from an existing Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha. This leads to a predicament, for in the absence of an existing Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha, a legitimate Theravāda bhikkhunī ordination itself cannot be granted. There is thus simply no possibility of reviving the Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha. Bhikkhunī ordination will remain out of reach throughout the duration of the present Buddha's dispensation. Those women who want to live a life of renunciation will have to be content with surrogate forms of renunciant life, such as that of the dasasilmātā, the thila-shin, or the maechee.


II. The Case for a Revival of Theravāda Bhikkhunī Ordination


After sketching the legal arguments that conservative Vinaya authorities raise against restoring the bhikkhunī ordination to the Theravāda tradition, I look at some factors, textual and ethical, that favor its restoration. I distribute these factors into two groups: one I call “ancient mandate”; the other, compelling contemporary circumstances.

The primary ancient mandate is the Buddha's own decision to create a Bhikkhunī Sangha as a counterpart to the male Bhikkhu Sangha. When Mahāpajāpatī Gotamī and the five hundred Sakyan women came to the Buddha, they did not ask the Buddha to establish an order of nuns. They simply asked him for permission to go forth into the homeless life. Although the Buddha at first denied this request, he finally yielded. In yielding, however, he did not simply allow women to go forth, but constituted renunciant women into a distinct order, a community governed by its own rules and regulations. Though he subordinated this order to the Bhikkhu Sangha with respect to certain functions, he still made it largely autonomous. This shows that he recognized the Bhikkhunī Sangha as an essential component of his Sāsana, and without the Bhikkhunī Sangha the Sāsana is imperfect and incomplete.

Reflection on contemporary conditions also supports the case for a revival of bhikkhunī ordination. Our own age has been shaped by the ideas of the European Enlightenment, a movement that affirmed the inherent dignity of the human person and brought demands for political equality and equal justice for all under the law. From the mid-nineteenth century on, people around the globe came to perceive discrimination based on gender as arbitrary and unjust, a system that had been imposed on society simply because of the dominant roles that men had played in eras when social stability depended on physical strength and military force. Thus discrimination based on gender has been challenged almost everywhere in the secular sphere, and its role in religious life has also come up for serious scrutiny. Religion remains one of its most persistent strongholds, and Buddhism is no exception to this. It is true that the Vinaya makes bhikkhunīs subordinate to bhikkhus, and the Bhikkhunī Sangha subordinate to the Bhikkhu Sangha, but we have to remember that the Buddha lived and taught in India in the fifth century B.C. Practices that pertain to etiquette must be evaluated in the light of altered social and cultural conditions. When we ask what line of action would be appropriate for today, we should not ask what the Buddha did twenty-five centuries ago, but what he would want us to do today.

If people see Theravāda Buddhism as a religion that includes male renunciants but excludes female renunciants, or which admits them only through some unofficial ordination, they will suspect that something is fundamentally askew, and defensive arguments based on appeals to arcane principles of monastic law will not go very far to break down distrust. This will be an instance of the type of behavior that we meet so often in the Vinaya where “those without confidence do not gain confidence, while among those with confidence, some undergo vacillation.” On the other hand, by rousing the courage to restore to women the right to lead a full religious life, that is, by reviving the Bhikkhunī Sangha, Theravādin elders will show that they know how to apply the Vinaya in a way that is appropriate to the time and circumstances, and also in a way that is kind and embracing rather than rigid and rejecting.


bersambung...
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #94 on: 10 October 2008, 10:32:46 AM »
III. Addressing the Legalist Challenge


Nevertheless, while there might be strong textual and ethical grounds favoring a revival of the Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha, such a step would not be possible unless the legal objections to such a movement can be addressed. The legalists object to resuscitating bhikkhunī ordination, not so much because of bias against women (though some might have such a bias), but because they see such a measure as a legal impossibility. To restore the Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha, the three challenges posed by Theravāda Vinaya legalists would have to be overcome. These are the challenges based on: (1) the problem of pabbajjā (novice ordination); (2) the problem of sikkhamānā ordination and training; and (3) the problem of upasampadā.

Here I will deal only with the question of upasampadā. Before doing so, however, I first want to note that Theravāda legal theory often merges stipulations on legal issues that stem from the canonical Vinaya texts and the Commentaries with interpretations and assumptions that have gained currency through centuries of tradition. I do not want to undervalue tradition, for it represents the accumulated legal expertise of generations of Vinaya specialists, and this expertise should certainly be respected and taken into account in determining how the Vinaya is to be applied to new situations. But we also must remember that tradition should not be placed on a par with the canonical Vinaya or even with the secondary authorities, the Aṭṭhakathās and Ṭīkās. These different sources should be assigned different weights of authority according to their different origins. When our understanding of the Vinaya is strongly grounded in tradition, however, without realizing it we may become entangled in a web of traditionalist assumptions that obstructs our ability to distinguish what derives from the canonical Vinaya from what is prescribed by tradition. Sometimes simply changing the assumptions can recast the principles of the Vinaya in a whole new light.

I will illustrate this point with an analogy from geometry. A straight line is drawn through a point. As this line is extended, the distance between its two ends widens. It is thus obvious that the two ends will never meet, and if anyone expresses doubts about this, I would almost question their rationality. But this is so only because I am thinking within the framework of traditional geometry, Euclidean geometry, which held sway over mathematics up until the twentieth century. When, however, we adopt the standpoint of spherical geometry, we can see that a line drawn through a particular point, if extended far enough, eventually encounters itself. Again, in traditional geometry we are taught that a triangle can have at most only one right angle and that the sum of the angles of a triangle must be 180°, and this can be proven with absolute rigor. But that is so only in Euclidean space. Give me a sphere, and we can define a triangle with three right angles whose angles make a sum of 270°. Thus, if I break away from my familiar assumptions, a whole new range of possibilities suddenly opens up to my understanding.

The same applies to our thinking about the Vinaya. For conservative theory, the fundamental assumptions are: (i) that the dual-Sangha ordination was intended to apply under all circumstances and admits of no exceptions or modifications to accord with conditions; (ii) that the Theravāda is the only Buddhist school that preserves an authentic Vinaya tradition. Once these assumptions are accepted, there is no escape from the conclusion that the Bhikkhunī Sangha is forever extinct. Those who favor revival of the Bhikkhunī Sangha, however, work with different assumptions. For them, the fundamental starting point was the Buddha’s decision to create the Bhikkhunī Sangha. The procedure of ordination was merely the legal mechanics to implement that decision. From this standpoint, to block the implementation of that decision because of a legal technicality is to hamper the fulfillment of the Buddha’s own intention. This is not to say that the proper way to implement his intention should violate the guidelines of the Vinaya. But within those broad guidelines the two assumptions of conservative legalism can be circumvented by holding either or both of the following: (i) that under exceptional circumstances the Bhikkhu Sangha can revert to a single-Sangha ordination of bhikkhunīs, based on the Buddha’s statement: “I allow you, bhikkhus, to ordain bhikkhunīs”; and (ii) that to preserve the form of dual-Sangha ordination, the Theravāda Bhikkhu Sangha can collaborate with a Bhikkhunī Sangha from an East Asian country following the Dharmaguptaka “Four-Section” Vinaya.

This approach to ordination may not satisfy the most rigorous demand of conservative Theravāda Vinaya legal theory, namely, that it be conducted by Theravāda bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs who have been ordained by Theravāda bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs in an unbroken lineage. But to make that impossible demand the uncompromising requirement for restoring the Bhikkhunī Sangha would seem unreasonably stringent. In the view of many learned Theravāda monks, mainly Sri Lankan, adopting either of the above routes will culminate in a valid bhikkhunī ordination and at the same time will grant to women the chance to live the spiritual life in the way that the Buddha intended them to live it—as fully ordained bhikkhunīs.

The grand ordination held at Bodhgaya in February 1998, under the auspices of Fo Guang Shan, combined both approaches mentioned above. This method yielded a more satisfactory ordination than either could if taken alone. The grand ordination ceremony assembled bhikkhus from several traditions—Chinese Mahāyāna, Theravāda, and Tibetan--along with Taiwanese and Western bhikkhunīs to conduct the full dual-ordination in accordance with the Chinese tradition. The women who were ordained included Theravāda nuns from Sri Lanka and Nepal, as well as Western nuns following Tibetan Buddhism. One might think that this was a Mahāyāna rite which made the nuns Mahāyāna bhikkhunīs, but this would be a misunderstanding. While the Chinese monks and nuns were practitioners of Mahāyāna Buddhism, the monastic Vinaya tradition they observe is not a Mahāyāna Vinaya but the Vinaya of the Dharmaguptakas, which belonged to the same broad Vibhajyavāda tradition to which the southern Theravāda school belongs. They were virtually the northwest Indian counterpart of the Theravāda, with a similar collection of suttas, an Abhidharma, and a Vinaya that largely corresponds to the Pāli Vinaya. Thus the upasampadā ordination performed by the Chinese Sangha at Bodhgaya conferred on the candidates the bhikkhunī lineage of the Dharmaguptakas, so that in Vinaya terms they were now full-fledged bhikkhunīs inheriting the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya lineage.

However, the bhikkhunīs from Sri Lanka wanted to become heirs to the Theravāda Vinaya lineage and to be acceptable to the Theravāda bhikkhus of Sri Lanka. The Sri Lankan bhikkhus who sponsored their ordination, too, were apprehensive that if the nuns returned to Sri Lanka with only the Chinese ordination, their co-religionists would have considered their ordination to have been essentially a Mahāyānist one. To prevent this, shortly afterwards the newly ordained bhikkhunīs traveled to Sarnath, where they underwent another upasampadā conducted in Pāli by Theravāda bhikkhus from Sri Lanka. This ordination did not negate the earlier dual-ordination received from the Chinese Sangha, but supplemented it and gave it a new direction. The dual-Sangha ordination at Bodhgaya made the women bhikkhunīs, but heirs of the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya lineage; the subsequent ordination by a Sangha of Theravāda bhikkhus at Sarnath inducted them into the Theravāda Sangha. They were now entitled to follow the Vinaya of the Pāli Canon and to perform the necessary sanghakammas together with their brothers in the Theravāda Bhikkhu Sangha of Sri Lanka.

While dual-Sangha ordination should certainly prevail whenever conditions make it feasible, a case can also be made to justify ordination solely by a Sangha of Theravāda bhikkhus. It might be argued that under the exceptional circumstances when a Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha has vanished, Theravāda bhikkhus are entitled to take as a precedent the original case when there was no Bhikkhunī Sangha and revive the allowance that the Buddha gave to the bhikkhus to ordain bhikkhunīs on their own. This allowance might be defended on the principle of analogy: When an exceptional method is used in one set of circumstances to achieve a desirable goal, then in circumstances that are similar in all relevant respects, if there is no other feasible method to achieve that goal, the exceptional method again becomes permissible. In this case, the original situation is that found at the inception of the Bhikkhunī Sangha, when the Sangha was placed in a double-bind. The sixth garudhamma required a dual-Sangha ordination for bhikkhunīs, but there was no Bhikkhunī Sangha to give the ordination. So how was the Sangha to escape this predicament? According to the account, the Buddha said: “I authorize bhikkhus to ordain bhikkhunīs.” And thus bhikkhus continued to ordain bhikkhunīs until the dual-Sangha ordination was prescribed. This situation is almost exactly analogous to the one we faced until recently, when there were women who wanted Theravāda bhikkhunī ordination but no Theravāda bhikkhunīs to ordain them. So one solution proposed was to allow Theravāda bhikkhus to use that authorization, never withdrawn, to ordain bhikkhunīs until a functional Bhikkhunī Sangha came into being. This was the method the Sri Lankan monks employed at Sarnath to give the Sri Lankan nuns a second ordination that inducted them into the Theravāda Sangha.

However, now that the Bhikkhunī Sangha has been reconstituted in Sri Lanka, there is no longer any justification for using ordination by a Sangha composed solely of bhikkhus. If any woman wants to receive bhikkhunī ordination in the Theravāda tradition, she should receive training as a sikkhamānā and eventual bhikkhunī ordination in Sri Lanka itself. No doubt, in time the opportunity for bhikkhunī ordination will also spread to the West.


Conclusion


The disappearance of the Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha has presented us with a situation not explicitly addressed in the Vinaya and thus one for which there is no unambiguous remedy. As I see it, the Vinaya cannot be read in any fixed manner as either unconditionally permitting or forbidding a revival of the Bhikkhunī Sangha. It yields these conclusions only as a result of interpretation, and interpretation often reflects the attitudes of the interpreters and the framework of assumptions within which they operate as much as it does the words of the text they are interpreting.

In my opinion, in dealing with this issue, the question that should be foremost in our minds is this: "What would the Buddha want his elder bhikkhu-disciples to do in such a situation, now, in the twenty-first century?" Would he want us to apply the regulations governing ordination in a way that excludes women from the fully ordained renunciant life, so that we present to the world a religion in which men alone can lead the life of full renunciation? Or would he instead want us to apply the regulations of the Vinaya in a way that is kind, generous, and accommodating, thereby offering the world a religion that truly embodies principles of justice and non-discrimination?

The answers to these questions are not immediately given by any text or tradition, but I don’t think we are left entirely to subjective opinion either. From the texts we can see how, in making major decisions, the Buddha displayed both compassion and disciplinary rigor; we can also see how, in defining the behavioral standards of his Sangha, he took account of the social and cultural expectations of his contemporaries. In working out a solution to our own problem, therefore, we have these two guidelines to follow. One is to be true to the spirit of the Dhamma--true to both the letter and the spirit, but above all to the spirit. The other is to be responsive to the social, intellectual, and cultural horizons of humanity in this particular period of history in which we live, this age in which we forge our own future destinies and the future destiny of Buddhism. Looked at in this light, the revival of a Theravāda Bhikkhunī Sangha can be seen as an intrinsic good that conforms to the innermost spirit of the Dhamma, helping to bring to fulfillment the Buddha's own mission of opening "the doors to the Deathless" to all humankind, to women as well as to men. At the same time, the existence of a Bhikkhunī Sangha can function as an instrumental good. It will allow women to make a meaningful contribution to Buddhism in many of the ways that monks do--as preachers, scholars, meditation teachers, educators, social advisors, and ritual leaders--and perhaps in certain ways that will be unique to female renunciants, for example, as counselors and guides to women lay followers. A Bhikkhunī Sangha will also win for Buddhism the respect of high-minded people in the world, who regard the absence of gender discrimination as the mark of a truly worthy religion in harmony with the noble trends of present-day civilization.
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Offline Lex Chan

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #95 on: 10 October 2008, 11:08:08 AM »
A Lotus at Dawn
Opening the Doors to the Theravada Bhikkhuni Sangha
By Ajahn Sujato

After an absence of more than 900 years, the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha (order of nuns) was revived in India with the ordination of several women in Sarnath. Today there are more than 300 bhikkhunis, primarily in Sri Lanka, the only traditional Theravada country that has welcomed this new phenomenon. Yet when the idea was first promoted in the early 1990’s there was much criticism and opposition. The opposition to the revival still persists as the Theravada school of Buddhism, within which this revival occurred, is commonly recognised as one which is strict, traditional and which places the highest importance on orthodoxy.

The bhikkhuni Order has been revived
 
In 1996, history was created as the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha was officially revived after a lapse of about a millennium with the ordination of 11 women in Sarnath. This event was followed by another organised on a greater scale at Bodhgaya in 1998. At this event, novices from 23 countries (including India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the Congo, Germany, Belgium, France, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Canada and the United States) congregated to receive instruction from the text of the Vinaya before taking the monastic precepts as bhikkhunis from a quorum of 15 nuns from Taiwan and monks from several countries. In the same year another 23 women were ordained in Sri Lanka and thus initiated the core of the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha.

It is no longer a question of whether the Theravada bhikkhuni sangha could be revived, but whether this movement would be given the recognition and respect it seeks. In the years to come, undoubtedly, this movement will find its ranks swelling with new recruits, not only in Sri Lanka and Thailand where it was recently introduced, but also in countries throughout the world as women of all nationalities import the lineage into their lands. If this sangha is given recognition and respect openly and generously, then the Theravada Buddhist community has a new limb. It would gain an additional body of dedicated people who, with fresh resolve and promise, can be expected to bring to this great tradition a new vigour and assist in spreading the Dhamma to new lands. If instead, they are rejected and shunned, then what we will have is a conflict that will never go away, a thorn, an embarrassment, and an unanswered question that will haunt and split the Theravada Buddhist community forever.

Until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples

Is there good reason for the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha? There seems little doubt from the scriptures that it was the Buddha’s intention that the bhikkhuni sangha should be established. At the request of his stepmother MahaPajapati Gotami and the intercession of Ven Ananda, the Buddha opened the doors of the holy life to women, thus providing them the best opportunities to win liberation. As the Buddha is enlightened, we can believe that it is impossible that he could make a mistake or be persuaded to any action he did not approve of. 

Indeed, we read from the scriptures that the Buddha, on several occasions praised individual bhikkhunis and made it clear that the bhikkhuni sangha was an intergral part of his mission.  There is the example from the Maha Parinibbana sutta, in which we see how the Buddha, who was then at Vesali, decided on the date of his Parinibbana or final passing away. Here, the Buddha was reminded of his words spoken to Mara soon after his enlightenment “I shall not come to my final passing away, Evil One, until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples -- wise, well disciplined, apt and learned, preservers of the Dhamma, living according to the Dhamma, abiding by appropriate conduct and, having learned the Master's word, are able to expound it, preach it, proclaim it, establish it, reveal it, explain it in detail, and make it clear; until, when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma.” This magnificent prophecy indicated that very early in the Buddha’s career he had already foreseen that his disciples would comprise these four important classes – bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen.  When the Buddha came to be eighty years of age, he saw that this objective had been achieved and proclaimed that he will pass away at the end of three months.

Thus, opposition to the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha appears to be contrary to the intentions of the Buddha. Indeed it is a dark blemish on the Theravada tradition that it, cocooned in its orthodoxy, did not actively explore the re-establishment of the bhikkhuni sangha sooner, thereby crippling the spread of the Dhamma and depriving women of the opportunities of the ordained life for close to a thousand years.

The problematic rule

The opposition issued several reasons why the bhikkhuni sangha cannot be revived. Most of them, in one way or another, centre around Theravada’s strict orthodoxy that once the bhikkhuni sangha became extinct 900 years ago, it became impossible to revive it. This springs from a rule made by the Buddha that a bhikkhuni could only be ordained by the procedure of first having a woman novice ordained under a quorum of other bhikkhunis and which is then seconded by a quorum of monks.

This rule, known as the dual-ordination procedure is described in the Cullavagga, of the Vinaya texts. The story goes that Pajapati Gotami, the step mother of the Buddha and her retinue of 500 women had travelled a long distance and now stopped at the gates of the monastery where the Buddha was residing.  Ananda encountered them and learnt of their desire to be ordained as bhikkhunis. With the diplomacy of Ananda acting on behalf of the women the Buddha agreed to the ordination of the women and that Pajapati Gotami herself would be first to become a bhikkhuni if she were to accept eight rules for the bhikkhunis. This, she gladly did, one of the rules being “A bhikkhuni must arrange for ordination by both the assemblies of bhikkhus and bhikkhunis for a woman novice only after two years probationary training under her in the observance of six training practices”. Thus, the opposition today opines that there being no bhikkhunis, this rule cannot be complied with. Consequently, the bhikkhuni sangha cannot be legitimately revived.

Other reasons given in opposition to the bhikkhuni sanhga suggest that even if it was possible, the bhikkhuni life is too difficult for women who should thus be content with ordination into an improvised order such as those of eight or ten precept nuns.

Why revive the bhikkhuni sangha – the holy life and twice the resources
 
I would like to suggest that the bhikkhuni sangha be nurtured and encouraged and explain how the obfuscations standing in its way could be overcome.

Some may question the wisdom of a woman who wishes to ordain as a bhikkhuni. Why should a woman subject herself to such rules as those imposed on a bhikkhuni? Why not become ten precept nuns where life is easier? The bhikkhuni life may not be suitable for every woman.  This may make it all the more difficult to comprehend the motivations of one who chooses this lifestyle. But this is only because it is our own wisdom and understanding that is short. The Buddha has opened the holy life to all and it is those individuals with a greater wisdom who would respond, who would renounce worldly life and dedicate themselves to the quest of the monastic lifestyle. If a woman wishes to take on these training rules prescribed by no lesser being than the Buddha himself, then such a woman should be applauded and her awesome determination respected. Certainly a Buddhist should not look askance at her motivations. To suggest to her that she should forsake becoming a bhikkhuni in favour of a ten-precept nun is as ridiculous as suggesting to a monk that he should exchange his 227 Vinaya rules for the easier lifestyle of a five precept layman.

The monks have long been the vanguards of the Buddha’s dispensation, disseminating and teaching the Dhamma. Yet, all across Asia, for the last several decades, we have seen Buddhism eroded by Communism, materialism and the forays of Christianity. Indeed the only country where Buddhism does not appear to be under threat but may actually be flourishing is Taiwan. Strangely, it is the only nation where the nuns far outnumber the monks. Is this a mere co-incidence? I do not suggest that the country’s success in upholding Buddhism is the result of the sexual demographics of the monastics, but that the religion there has access to twice the amount of human resources. Indeed, whilst monks lead many of the largest Buddhist organizations in Taiwan, the administration is largely left to nuns who manage them with dedication and efficiency. Nuns are also at the forefront of several organisations involved in education and social work.

The model of the ten precept nun is a failure
 
It could be argued that this hypothesis is incorrect as there are large numbers of eight and ten precept nuns in other countries such as Thailand and Sri Lanka. These orders are modelled after the bhikkhuni sangha but take the minimum of precepts. To this, is replied that the eight and ten precept nuns in these countries actually evoke very little respect from society and hence have little influence on it. For example, the white clad maejis of Thailand and dasasils of Sri Lanka receive little support from the public. They have few temples or educational organizations to support them. And a significant segment of them serve little formal purpose other than as servants or helpers at the monasteries where they are given permission to stay. The nuns of Myanmar are in a slightly better position, but are still relegated to a much lower status than that of the monks. When introduced in western countries, these ten precept orders may find an equal status as prejudices have yet to step in and discriminatory practices are scorned. However in Buddhist Asia, it is a different situation. Although society here may accept these orders in their midst, it is also painfully aware that they are merely an improvisation. Whatever their designs, they are given little recognition and even less support. Consequently, they fail in their objectives of providing an effective holy life for women and as a benevolent influence on society.

Is there reason for opposition?
 
The great advantages that bhikkhunis provide themselves and the Buddhist communities they live in is obvious.  However, the opposition, including those who see these benefits, choose to deny the aspirations of the women with the claim of preserving orthodox tradition. To be clear, the opposition claims that the ordination of bhikkhunis breaks the rules of tradition. Logic and reason are strong points in Theravada practice. Yet, it must be the height of irony and a total perversion of logic that the opposition, in attempting to uphold the rules of tradition, would directly cause the same tradition’s extinction. Surely, the rules formulated by the Buddha were to protect his dispensation, not to obstruct or destroy it.

How the bhikkhuni sangha could be revived

In any case, are the arguments that the Vinaya rules do not allow the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha unimpeachable? No. Although the opposition makes a good case against the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha on technical grounds, certainly, the monks who support the movement and were instrumental in the revival think that there is sufficient material in the Vinaya to arrive at a different conclusion.

The pertinent arguments for a differing interpretation of the rules regarding the ordination of bhikkhunis are as follows:

1. In the MahaParinibbana sutta, where it was described that the Buddha was preparing to pass way, he called his loyal attendant Ananda and advised that the Sangha was permitted to abolish the lesser and minor rules. With this final concession provided by the Buddha, it becomes possible for a quorum of monks to make the necessary amendments to the rules to revive the bhikkhuni sangha. If any monk believes that the rules pertaining to the ordination of bhikkhunis fall outside the category of lesser and minor rules he could be invited into the community of monks to justify his position.

2. As was mentioned earlier, the dual ordination rule was part of the eight rules accepted by Pajapati Gotami before the Buddha would ordain her and set up the bhikkhuni sangha. After this event, the Buddha told the monks about his instructions to Pajapati Gotami and gave the injunction “I permit you monks, to confer full ordination on bhikkhunis”. This may sound surprising but of course, we see that there were insufficient bhikkhunis to form the first quorum and also there were no women novices yet. Thus the Buddha had logically allowed the monks to confer full ordination on this first batch of women.

This injunction itself should be sufficient to provide adequate authority to monks today to confer ordination without the procedure of dual ordination at places and at times where a quorum of bhikkhunis and women novices do not yet exist. The injunction by the Buddha at the first institution of the bhikhuni sangha should be equally valid at this time as we are under the very same circumstances. In further support of this, we could use as an example the practice of English law today which includes that which is known as “common law”. This practice uses precedence of past decisions as a valid basis for decisions that could legitimately be applied today. Surely, there could be no greater precedence and authority than the decision of the Buddha.

3. However, even if the dual ordination procedure is insisted upon, this requirement could still be satisfied. We understand from historical records that the bhikkhuni sangha in Mahayana countries such as China and Korea is a direct descendent of the bhikkhuni sangha of Sri Lanka. These records indicate that in 429 C.E. and 432 C.E. two delegations of Sri Lankan bhikhunis, the latter group headed by the bhikkhuni Devasara reached China and conferred the dual ordinations for the Chinese nuns. Thus it is possible for Theravada bhikkhunis to receive back this continuous and unbroken lineage. The point that the Mahayana nuns have different religious beliefs is irrelevant as ordination is a matter of Vinaya and not beliefs. As a counter-argument, it could be reasoned that among Theravada monks, there is also a variety of religious beliefs but this does not affect their status as monks. Although there are other technical points for further opposition in this matter, none among them appears to be absolutely restrictive. Among the Theravada scholar monks who support this possibility were the late Ven Dr Walpola Rahula and the late Ven Dr K Sri Dhammananda who also attended the bhikkhuni ordination at BodhGaya in 1998.

4. Following from 3 above, even if the bhikkhuni who receives part of her ordination from the Mahayana sangha, is not recognized by her Theravada brethren, it appears there is nothing in the Vinaya rules she has undertaken to stop her from practicing Theravada Buddhism. She is able to dress, recite the suttas and do all her religious duties in the Theravada form as the Mahayana school of Buddhism recognizes Theravada as a valid subset of itself. So at the very least, the bhikkhuni sangha could be accepted as a Mahayana ordained body which practises Theravada Buddhism.

Finally, what is the Dhamma Vinaya?
 
It is conceded that the proposed avenues above are not so clear that they can be readily agreed to without objections. Whichever side of the controversy one chooses to sit really rests on one’s inclinations. However, in attempting to see above the arguments, an all-important question we should ask ourselves is - what is the fundamental purpose of the Dhamma Vinaya? Is it all then just a legal code?

Buddhism is a beautiful, gentle religion that speaks to the heart of all who would listen. It opens our minds to wisdom and compassion and leads us away from the dark dogmas that shackle us to superstitious beliefs and harmful actions. How can we deny our sisters their choice of leading their lives as bhikkhunis; the right to fulfil their aspirations, maybe even their destinies? Do we have sufficient reason? Is it enough to merely say that we wish to uphold the rules of the tradition? Perhaps - if these rules are absolute and there is not the tiniest sliver of light between its sturdy doors. But as we can see, this is not the case. There exists an opportunity to make amends, to set upright what has long been left fallen, and to gift our sisters what the brothers have long enjoyed. The revived bhikkhuni sangha is a lotus at dawn. Whether it is greeted by the warm rays of our welcome, or broken by the storms of rejection are now the choices before the Theravada communities. May we all choose wisely.
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #96 on: 10 October 2008, 11:42:22 AM »
Quote
1. In the MahaParinibbana sutta, where it was described that the Buddha was preparing to pass way, he called his loyal attendant Ananda and advised that the Sangha was permitted to abolish the lesser and minor rules. With this final concession provided by the Buddha, it becomes possible for a quorum of monks to make the necessary amendments to the rules to revive the bhikkhuni sangha. If any monk believes that the rules pertaining to the ordination of bhikkhunis fall outside the category of lesser and minor rules he could be invited into the community of monks to justify his position.

Di Theravada hak untuk menghapuskan peraturan ini sudah disepakati tidak dipakai lagi, demi mempertahankan Dhamma dan Vinaya.

Tapi di Mazhab lain mau dipergunakan, silahkan saja.

Quote
2. As was mentioned earlier, the dual ordination rule was part of the eight rules accepted by Pajapati Gotami before the Buddha would ordain her and set up the bhikkhuni sangha. After this event, the Buddha told the monks about his instructions to Pajapati Gotami and gave the injunction “I permit you monks, to confer full ordination on bhikkhunis”. This may sound surprising but of course, we see that there were insufficient bhikkhunis to form the first quorum and also there were no women novices yet. Thus the Buddha had logically allowed the monks to confer full ordination on this first batch of women.

This injunction itself should be sufficient to provide adequate authority to monks today to confer ordination without the procedure of dual ordination at places and at times where a quorum of bhikkhunis and women novices do not yet exist. The injunction by the Buddha at the first institution of the bhikhuni sangha should be equally valid at this time as we are under the very same circumstances. In further support of this, we could use as an example the practice of English law today which includes that which is known as “common law”. This practice uses precedence of past decisions as a valid basis for decisions that could legitimately be applied today. Surely, there could be no greater precedence and authority than the decision of the Buddha.

3. However, even if the dual ordination procedure is insisted upon, this requirement could still be satisfied. We understand from historical records that the bhikkhuni sangha in Mahayana countries such as China and Korea is a direct descendent of the bhikkhuni sangha of Sri Lanka. These records indicate that in 429 C.E. and 432 C.E. two delegations of Sri Lankan bhikhunis, the latter group headed by the bhikkhuni Devasara reached China and conferred the dual ordinations for the Chinese nuns. Thus it is possible for Theravada bhikkhunis to receive back this continuous and unbroken lineage. The point that the Mahayana nuns have different religious beliefs is irrelevant as ordination is a matter of Vinaya and not beliefs. As a counter-argument, it could be reasoned that among Theravada monks, there is also a variety of religious beliefs but this does not affect their status as monks. Although there are other technical points for further opposition in this matter, none among them appears to be absolutely restrictive. Among the Theravada scholar monks who support this possibility were the late Ven Dr Walpola Rahula and the late Ven Dr K Sri Dhammananda who also attended the bhikkhuni ordination at BodhGaya in 1998.

Seperti : Dhammaduta pertama, 60 Arahat diperbolehkan menabiskan sendiri, tetapi peraturan terakhir yang dipakai, yaitu jika ada 5 Bhikkhu.

Bhikkhu Bodhi, Bhikkhu Thannisaro, Ajahn Brahm, Bhikkhu-Bhikkhu Barat, dan juga dari Vajrayana yang memakai Vinaya Mulasarvastivada, Dalai Lama, semuanya tidak setuju menahbiskan jika tidak ada Bhikkhuni. Satu-satunya jalan yang mungkin adalah : menggunakan Bhiksuni Mahayana (yang memakai Vinaya Dharmagupta) untuk menahbiskan Bhikkhuni.

Tetapi yang jadi masalah, yang menahbiskan menggunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta, dan apakah yang ditahbiskan bisa menggunakan Vinaya Theravada? Bukannya jadi gado-gado?

Harap diingat, Theravada memiliki warisan sendiri yang boleh dianggap valid oleh pengikutnya. Apakah salah mempertahankan warisan ajaran yang dilestarikan oleh Theravada? Silahkan jadi Bhiksuni Dharmagupta (Mahayana), bahkan silahkan mengajarkan pandangan Theravada, tapi status tetap menggunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta.

Dan hal ini bukan cuma terjadi di Theravada. Vajrayana yang menggunakan Vinaya Mulasarvastivada juga tidak sembarangan menabiskan Bhikkhuni Vajrayana (Monastic).

Quote
4. Following from 3 above, even if the bhikkhuni who receives part of her ordination from the Mahayana sangha, is not recognized by her Theravada brethren, it appears there is nothing in the Vinaya rules she has undertaken to stop her from practicing Theravada Buddhism. She is able to dress, recite the suttas and do all her religious duties in the Theravada form as the Mahayana school of Buddhism recognizes Theravada as a valid subset of itself. So at the very least, the bhikkhuni sangha could be accepted as a Mahayana ordained body which practises Theravada Buddhism.

Setuju. Silahkan berlatih sesuai pandangan masing-masing. Yang berarti sekali lagi : Theravada = Hinayana, ajaran rendah dan hina.
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #97 on: 10 October 2008, 11:50:17 AM »
Quote
Tetapi yang jadi masalah, yang menahbiskan menggunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta, dan apakah yang ditahbiskan bisa menggunakan Vinaya Theravada? Bukannya jadi gado-gado?

Harap diingat, Theravada memiliki warisan sendiri yang boleh dianggap valid oleh pengikutnya. Apakah salah mempertahankan warisan ajaran yang dilestarikan oleh Theravada? Silahkan jadi Bhiksuni Dharmagupta (Mahayana), bahkan silahkan mengajarkan pandangan Theravada, tapi status tetap menggunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta.

ngga salah mempraktekkan ajaran sekte lain kan? apakah ada larangan?
yang penting status penahbisannya valid.. ;D

Quote
Setuju. Silahkan berlatih sesuai pandangan masing-masing. Yang berarti sekali lagi : Theravada = Hinayana, ajaran rendah dan hina.

apakah subset berarti rendah dan hina?
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #98 on: 10 October 2008, 11:59:40 AM »
Iya, tapi apakah penahbisan Dharmagupta itu sah atau tidak silahkan yang menggunakan Vinaya Dharmagupta yang menafsirkan.

Apakah Theravada ada kewajiban mengakui ajaran Mahayana? Atau ajaran masing-masing saja?

Ini sih cuma tugas aye sebagai setan, karena nampaknya pandangan cuma dari satu pihak saja. ;D

Bhante Sujjato memang terkenal dengan semangat unifikasi. Bisa dilihat dari tulisannya yaitu GIST.
Tapi harus dilihat juga, gak semua mengakui GIST ini. Seperti Bhikkhu dari barat, sudah lumrah meletakkan logika di atas Sutta dan Vinaya. Ada yang mengakui Theravada sebagai subset Mahayana, silahkan. Tapi jangan paksa semua mengakui demikian.
Kembali ke praktek masing-masing. Kalau ada yang ngotot mempertahankan tradisi, harus dilihat alasannya, bukan cuma kolot dan rasialis aja.
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #99 on: 10 October 2008, 12:51:46 PM »
hehehe.. tampaknya memang sangat sulit mencapai kata sepakat..

jadi, secara teori, bangkitnya kembali Bhikkhuni Theravada cuma tinggal impian.. :D
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #100 on: 10 October 2008, 01:05:16 PM »
Kalau saya boleh perjelas, yang impian : Bangkitnya Bhikkhuni Theravada yang diakui oleh Sangha Theravada

Sebenarnya cara yang dilakukan ayya saat ini sudah bagus....... dia menggunakan "merk" lain, bukan Bhikkhuni Theravada.....

so benernya udah ok... cmiiw  _/\_

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #101 on: 10 October 2008, 01:06:40 PM »
Yah, kalau yang mau ikut cari di Barat atau di Australi.
Kalau di Indonesia dan negara asia tenggara dan sri lanka tampaknya berat.
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #102 on: 10 October 2008, 07:13:14 PM »
Lapor, namanya bukan STT, tapi The Board Committee for Dhammayut in Indonesia

Dan BCD tidak mendukung Sangha Bhikkhuni, melainkan mereka yang mendukung BCD ;D

BCD setuju, tapi bukan Vinaya Theravada
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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #103 on: 10 October 2008, 09:15:33 PM »
memang sangat disayang kan terjadi seperti ini padahal semua nya berasal dan bermula dari sang Budhha.

Itulah kenyataan nya jadi kalo mau jadi bhikuni silahkan tapi kalo mau jadi bhikuni sangha theravada mesti lihat dulu sah atau tidak sah nya menurut sangha theravada.

jadi boleh boleh saja menjadi bhikuni dari aliran dharmagupta (mahayana). toh tidak di larang untuk  mempelajari aliran lain.
« Last Edit: 10 October 2008, 09:19:33 PM by daimond »

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Re: Bhikhuni Theravada????bagaimana tanggapan anda????
« Reply #104 on: 11 October 2008, 12:35:10 PM »
teman-teman, ikut sharing pendapat ya?

Kelihatannya kita terjebak pada status bhikkhuni...

Padahal bila kita teliti kembali tujuan menjadi bhikkhuni itu apa sih..? apakah statusnya...? jubahnya....? atau vinayanya...?

bila menjadi bhikkhuni hanya mencari status atau jubah saja sangat disayangkan sekali...

Tetapi saya rasa sebaiknya seseorang bertujuan menjadi bhikkhuni untuk menjalankan vinayanya, dan inilah tujuan yang pantas...

Lantas bila seseorang ingin menjalankan sila yang lebih tinggi (sila bhikkhuni), maka tentu bukan suatu persoalan besar apakah ia dianggap bhikkhuni atau tidak karena, jika ia tulus ingin menjadi bhikkhuni (berdasarkan tekad menjalankan sila yang lebih tinggi) maka yang terpenting adalah ia menjalankan vinaya bhikkhuni dengan sungguh sungguh dan tidak terlalu peduli mengenai orang menganggap ia bhikkhuni atau bukan....

Di mata saya dan di mata umat, tentu ia akan dihormati layaknya seorang bhikkhuni, walaupun ia tetap berstatus anagarini (seperti yang dilakukan oleh Ayya Khema pada masa awal ia memakai jubah bhikkhuni).

Sehingga ia mendapat berkah kebahagiaan terbebas dari konflik...

(((semoga kita semua semakin maju dalam Dhamma)))
Tiga hal ini, O para bhikkhu dilakukan secara rahasia, bukan secara terbuka.
Bercinta dengan wanita, mantra para Brahmana dan pandangan salah.

Tiga hal ini, O para Bhikkhu, bersinar secara terbuka, bukan secara rahasia.
Lingkaran rembulan, lingkaran matahari serta Dhamma dan Vinaya Sang Tathagata