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Offline Sumedho

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The Buddhist Channel, Sept 26, 2010

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia – World renowned Venerable Thich Nhat Hahn in his keynote address at the World Buddhist Conference 2010 currently held in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, have urged politicians in parliaments, business executives in corporations, teachers in classrooms and families to adopt the “5 mindfulness training” as first steps in redeeming this planet from our destructive tendencies.


By way of integrating the “5 mindfulness training” (which is based on the 5 moral precepts ) into the core values of the mentioned institutions, Thich Nhat Hahn says that such collective effort will be able to bring about happiness and the well being of the world.

“When we implement these mindfulness trainings with understanding and compassion, we transfer happiness to the world. Corporations using these trainings will be able to realize profit not just in terms of making money, but profits that can also help to protect the planet,” reasons the venerable.

This famed Zen Master said that it was possible for corporations or parliaments to cultivate happiness and compassion within. He explained that each of these institutions can be treated as Sangha, very much like the traditional community of monks and nuns.

As with the Sangha, he says that these entities can also practice deep listening and loving speech. When they do this, then they will be opportunities to transform the parliament, corporation, classrooms and families in Sangha.
“When this happen, we will be able to understand the suffering of each other, and our actions shall bring good happiness and well being to the world,” he said.

The venerable pointed to a situation as to how the current generation had failed future generations.

Citing unbridled consumerism and unmindful living as the cause, he said that a practical way to the save the planet is to encourage collective practice by the young.

“One Buddha is not enough. We need many Buddhas,” he reasoned.

He said that now the onus of the younger generation is to become “activists of the 5 mindfulness training”.

It is through deep listening and compassion within that parliaments, corporations, classrooms and families can be transformed into mindful Sanghas. And it is by these transformations thereby lies the hope of salvation for this planet.

The World Buddhist Conference 2010 is being held in the Malaysian capital from Sept 25-26, 2010. Nine speakers including Ven Thich Nhat Hahn have been invited to share their experiences and wisdom on the theme “Living in Harmony, When Things Fall Apart”.
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Offline Sumedho

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Jadi bingung arti kata sangha nya dalam konteks beliau
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Offline dhammadinna

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Quote
...Many people come to our center and learn this art of mindful living. And go back to their hometowns and set up a sangha, a community, to do the same. We have helped set up sanghas all over the world...

sumber

Sepertinya definisi Sangha menurut beliau, agak berbeda. Bukan komunitas bhikkhu/ni saja tapi juga termasuk umat awam yang 'berlatih'.

Offline morpheus

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sepertinya cuman kata ganti 'community'.
* I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it
* Neo, sooner or later you're going to realize just as I did that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path

Offline Indra

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TNH ini sebenarnya profesinya apa ya? apakah sejenis motivator?

Offline dhammadinna

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umm...

motivator =  orang yang memotivasi (urging)...

Memotivasi pelaksanaan five mindfulness training = ya, motivator  (dalam topik ini) ;D
« Last Edit: 12 October 2010, 04:45:17 PM by Mayvise »

Offline Mokau Kaucu

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"Can be  treated as Sangha",  tidak berarti Parliament = Sangha.


"As with the Sangha "  , tidak berarti institusi seperti Parliament, Corrporatioan, Institution = Sangha.

TNH hanya mememotivasi agar individu yg berada dalam insititusi tsb bertindah dgn 5 mindfulness yg berasal dari  5 sila.

Tidak ada pernyataan bahwa Parlemen = Sangha
~Life is suffering, why should we make it more?~

Offline luis

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Yup, menurut saya juga juga definisi "Sangha" beliau berbeda dengan definisi Sangha umumnya dalam Buddhism.

Sebelum jaman Sang Buddha, Sangha memang berarti "komunitas" secara umum. Kalau tidak salah, arti harafiah nya sama dengan "Republik". Tetapi pada jaman Sang Buddha dan setelahnya, Sangha memiliki penyempitan makna menjadi "komunitas monastik". Jadi dalam literatur Buddhism, arti Sangha secara "otomatis" mengacu pada "komunitas monastik".

Tentunya istilah "Ariya Sangha" memiliki makna yang lebih "khusus" lagi ... yang mengacu pada 8 makhluk suci (dari sotapanna-magga sampai Arahat-phala). Di sini maknanya bukan lagi pada "komunitas monastik", tetapi pada semua makhluk suci tersebut baik monastik maupun non-monastik.

Untuk istilah komunitas para praktisi (monks, nuns, upasaka, upasika), biasanya disebut dengan parisa (atau assembly). Kelihatannya definisi "Sangha" menurut Thay TNH mengacu pada parisa ini. Tanpa mengurangi hormat saya kepada beliau sebagai Guru Dharma yang handal, saya pribadi lebih cenderung menempatkan istilah "parisa" dan "Sangha" pada konteks yang sesuai. Men-generalisasi "parisa" sebagai "Sangha" akan menimbulkan kerancuan istilah dan makna.

Semoga semua makhluk berbahagia.

Mettacittena,
Luis

Do not blame nor criticise anyone, as there is no one to blame in the first place.

Offline Indra

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Yup, menurut saya juga juga definisi "Sangha" beliau berbeda dengan definisi Sangha umumnya dalam Buddhism.

Sebelum jaman Sang Buddha, Sangha memang berarti "komunitas" secara umum. Kalau tidak salah, arti harafiah nya sama dengan "Republik". Tetapi pada jaman Sang Buddha dan setelahnya, Sangha memiliki penyempitan makna menjadi "komunitas monastik". Jadi dalam literatur Buddhism, arti Sangha secara "otomatis" mengacu pada "komunitas monastik".

Tentunya istilah "Ariya Sangha" memiliki makna yang lebih "khusus" lagi ... yang mengacu pada 8 makhluk suci (dari sotapanna-magga sampai Arahat-phala). Di sini maknanya bukan lagi pada "komunitas monastik", tetapi pada semua makhluk suci tersebut baik monastik maupun non-monastik.

Untuk istilah komunitas para praktisi (monks, nuns, upasaka, upasika), biasanya disebut dengan parisa (atau assembly). Kelihatannya definisi "Sangha" menurut Thay TNH mengacu pada parisa ini. Tanpa mengurangi hormat saya kepada beliau sebagai Guru Dharma yang handal, saya pribadi lebih cenderung menempatkan istilah "parisa" dan "Sangha" pada konteks yang sesuai. Men-generalisasi "parisa" sebagai "Sangha" akan menimbulkan kerancuan istilah dan makna.

Semoga semua makhluk berbahagia.

Mettacittena,
Luis



IMO bahkan setelah zaman Sang Buddha, dalam beberapa Sutta, Sang Buddha juga menyebut Sangha untuk merujuk pada komunitas non monastik.

misalnya pada Anguttara Nikaya, Catukkanipātapāḷi, 1 Paṭhamapaṇṇāsaka » 1.1 Bhaṇḍagāmavagga,
1.1.7 Sobhanasutta, yg pernah diperdebatkan di thread sebelah
Quote
“Cattārome, bhikkhave, viyattā vinītā visāradā bahussutā dhammadharā dhammānudhammappaṭipannā saṃghaṃ sobhenti. Katame cattāro? Bhikkhu, bhikkhave, viyatto vinīto visārado bahussuto dhammadharo dhammānudhammappaṭipanno saṃghaṃ sobheti. Bhikkhunī, bhikkhave, viyattā vinītā visāradā bahussutā dhammadharā dhammānudhammappaṭipannā saṃghaṃ sobheti. Upāsako, bhikkhave, viyatto vinīto visārado bahussuto dhammadharo dhammānudhammappaṭipanno saṃghaṃ sobheti. Upāsikā, bhikkhave, viyattā vinītā visāradā bahussutā dhammadharā dhammānudhammappaṭipannā saṃghaṃ sobheti. Ime kho, bhikkhave, cattāro viyattā vinītā visāradā bahussutā dhammadharā dhammānudhammappaṭipannā saṃghaṃ sobhentīti.


7. Bhikkhus, these four are wise, disciplined, confident, learned, bearers of the Teaching, living accordingly are adornments to the Community. Which four?

Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu who is wise, disciplined, confident, learned, a bearer of the Teaching, living accordingly is an adornment to the Community.

Bhikkhus, a bhikkhuni who is wise, disciplined, confident, learned, a bearer of the Teaching, living accordingly is an adornment to the Community.

Bhikkhus, a male lay disciple wise, disciplined, confident, learned, a bearer of the Teaching, living accordingly is an adornment to the Community.

Bhikkhus, a female lay disciple wise, disciplined, confident, learned, a bearer of the Teaching, living accordingly is an adornment to the Community.

Bhikkhus, these four wise, disciplined, confident, learned, bearers of the Teaching, living accordingly are adornments to the Community.

The wise, confident, learned bearers of the Teaching,

Are the adornments to the Community

A bhikkhu who is virtuous, a learned bhikkhuni,

A male lay disciple and a female lay disciple with faith

They are adornments to the Community


menurut saya saṃghaṃ sobheti di atas merujuk pada "komunitas" dalam kelompoknya masing-masing, jadi bukan keempat kelompok itu semuanya memperindah Sangha para bhikkhu

interpretasi saya kurang lebih sbb:

para bhikkhu yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhu
para bhikkhuni yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhuni
para upasaka yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasaka
para upasika yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasika.

_/\_
CMIIW.
« Last Edit: 15 October 2010, 10:59:45 PM by Indra »

Offline Indra

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ada artikel menarik sehubungan dengan hal ini

The So-Called Lay "Sangha" in America
by Ronald Epstein (Upasaka I Guorong)
Originally published in Vajra Bodhi Sea, v. 16, ser. 38, no. 188, Jan. 1986, p. 18.
(Chinese translation published in Wan-fo Ch'eng, Sept. 1985, p. 18.)

Many of America's new Buddhists are spreading the idea that they are a "sangha" and that their lay "sangha" movement is the correct adaptation of Buddhism to the American scene. Where does this peculiar and dangerous idea come from?

Traditionally the Sangha is considered the third of the Three Jewels---Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha--which are the foundation of Buddhism. Sangha refers to the community of fully ordained monks (Bhikshus) and nuns (Bhikshunis) who de-vote their lives, full-time, to the Buddhist Path. In both Northern (Mahayana) and Southern (Theravada) Buddhism, the moral relations governing the life of the Sangha community are practically identical. They insure a lifestyle that is pure, celibate, and free from worldly desires. In both Northern and Southern Buddhism, the great teachers and enlight-ened masters have come almost exclusively from the Sangha. There have been a few enlightened Buddhist laymen and laywomen in the past, but not one of them failed to wholeheartedly support the Sangha as the foundation of the larger Buddhist community.

How can laypeople constitute a "sangha"? This is a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. They hear that the Sanskrit word sangha means community and say to themselves: we are a community, so we should call ourselves "sangha."

Why do they ignore the traditional meaning of Sangha within Buddhism? Why do they try to usurp the roles of the monks and nuns without taking on their commitment, vows, and responsibilities? This is a case of an initially valid insight leading to wrong conclusions because of lack of correct information.

Most of those in the lay "sangha" movement were introduced to Buddhism through American Zen Centers that see themselves in the tradition of the Japanese Zen schools, which belong to Northern, Mahayana, Buddhism. They see that the teachers in those schools, both Japanese and American, are married and in many cases lead lives that are far from being austere and pure. It strikes them that there is no reason for them to support these so-called "priests" or "monks" whose way of life is not really superior or more laudable than their own. That makes sense. But then, instead of supporting a real Sangha, they set them-selves up as "sangha." They don't realize that their own Japanese Zen tradition was derived from Chinese Ch'an (Zen being the Japanese pronunciation) and that the lineages of Chinese Ch'an are traced back to India and ultimately to the Buddha. They don't know that all the great Japanese Zen masters strongly supported the monastic traditions as they existed in India and China as being absolutely essential to the survival of the Japanese Zen tradition. They don't realize that it was only in 1868, a little over a hundred years ago, that the Japanese government closed all Buddhist monasteries and sent all the monks and nuns back to lay life. The reason for abolishing the real Sangha in Japan was political, and no one in Japan has ever tried to justify it on religious grounds. The Sangha was simply never reestablished there.

Most of the people in the lay "sangha" movement are well-meaning, thinking that they are building a truly American Buddhism. Unfortunately, they are unaware that, throughout history, wherever the Sangha has been strong and pure, Buddhism has flourished, and wherever the Sangha is weakened and corrupt, Buddhism decays. By setting themselves up as "sangha," instead of encouraging, aiding, and supporting the real Sangha, they are not only failing to help build American Buddhism, but are directly opposing and undermining it. These well-meaning people should educate themselves about their own traditions, so that they can understand the harm they are doing, change their ways, and enter the right Path.

Offline luis

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menurut saya saṃghaṃ sobheti di atas merujuk pada "komunitas" dalam kelompoknya masing-masing, jadi bukan keempat kelompok itu semuanya memperindah Sangha para bhikkhu

interpretasi saya kurang lebih sbb:

para bhikkhu yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhu
para bhikkhuni yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhuni
para upasaka yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasaka
para upasika yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasika.

_/\_
CMIIW.


Terima kasih, interpretasi yang sangat menarik :) membaca sutta ini, kesan yang saya dapatkan adalah "Sangha" di sini mengacu pada Ariya Sangha. Jadi keempat kategori tersebut "memperindah" komunitas para Ariya (Sotapanna-magga sampai Arahat-phala). Yang membuat saya memiliki kesan tersebut adalah bait selanjutnya:

A bhikkhu who is virtuous, a learned bhikkhuni,

A male lay disciple and a female lay disciple with faith

They are adornments to the Community
[/i]

Berhubung kalimat dalam kutipan di atas tidak terdapat bahasa pali nya di post Bro Indra sebelumnya, saya tidak tahu kalimat pali dari "a male lay disciple and a female lay disciple with faith". Tapi dari istilah "with faith", saya mengasosiasikannya dengan Saddha-nusari, yang dalam Okkanti Samyutta (SN 25) dikatakan "tidak mungkin meninggal tanpa merealisasikan sotapanna-phala" (dengan kata lain, sotapattana-magga)

Abhabbo tam kammam katum yam kammam katva nirayam va tiracchana,yonim va petti,visayam va uppajjeyya.
Abhabbo ca tava kalam katum yava na sotapatti,phalam sacchikaroti.

He is incapable of doing any intentional deed by which he might be reborn in hell, or in the animal birth, or in the ghost realm.
He is incapable of dying without having attained the fruit of streamwinning.


Ngintip di thread sebelah (http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=16277.msg263193#msg263193), Samanera Peacemind mengatakan bahwa kitab sub-komentar untuk sutta di atas menyebutkan "keempat kelompok manusia di atas adalah mereka yang telah menembus kebenaran (saccapaṭivedha). Artinya, mereka setidaknya telah mencapai kesucian sotapanna". Sementara kalau menurut interpretasi saya di atas, tidak perlu telah merealisasikan sotapanna-phala, tetapi bisa masih berada dalam sotapanna-magga sebagai Saddha-nusari (walaupun dalam Abhidhamma dikatakan bahwa realisasi magga dan pala hanya berbeda 1 momen). Tetapi apapun itu, keduanya mengacu pada konteks "Sangha" sebagai "Ariya Sangha"

CMIIW too :)

Mettacittena,
Luis
Do not blame nor criticise anyone, as there is no one to blame in the first place.

Offline luis

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Terima kasih Bro Indra untuk tambahan artikelnya. Ya, saya juga sangat menyayangkan gerakan "lay-sangha" ini, dan inilah yang merupakan kerancuan interpretasi parisa dan sangha. Implikasinya sangat serius, karena gerakan ini seolah2 me-delegitimasi komunitas monastik sebagai komunitas paling kondusif untuk merealisasikan nibbana. Dan sayangnya, inilah yang terjadi di tradisi Zen Jepang. Semoga ini jadi pelajaran bagi kita semua supaya degradasi ke Dhamma-ending-age bisa diperlambat :) 
Do not blame nor criticise anyone, as there is no one to blame in the first place.

Offline Indra

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menurut saya saṃghaṃ sobheti di atas merujuk pada "komunitas" dalam kelompoknya masing-masing, jadi bukan keempat kelompok itu semuanya memperindah Sangha para bhikkhu

interpretasi saya kurang lebih sbb:

para bhikkhu yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhu
para bhikkhuni yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para bhikkhuni
para upasaka yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasaka
para upasika yang bermoral, terpelajar ... memperindah komunitas para upasika.

_/\_
CMIIW.


Terima kasih, interpretasi yang sangat menarik :) membaca sutta ini, kesan yang saya dapatkan adalah "Sangha" di sini mengacu pada Ariya Sangha. Jadi keempat kategori tersebut "memperindah" komunitas para Ariya (Sotapanna-magga sampai Arahat-phala). Yang membuat saya memiliki kesan tersebut adalah bait selanjutnya:

A bhikkhu who is virtuous, a learned bhikkhuni,

A male lay disciple and a female lay disciple with faith

They are adornments to the Community
[/i]

Berhubung kalimat dalam kutipan di atas tidak terdapat bahasa pali nya di post Bro Indra sebelumnya, saya tidak tahu kalimat pali dari "a male lay disciple and a female lay disciple with faith". Tapi dari istilah "with faith", saya mengasosiasikannya dengan Saddha-nusari, yang dalam Okkanti Samyutta (SN 25) dikatakan "tidak mungkin meninggal tanpa merealisasikan sotapanna-phala" (dengan kata lain, sotapattana-magga)

Abhabbo tam kammam katum yam kammam katva nirayam va tiracchana,yonim va petti,visayam va uppajjeyya.
Abhabbo ca tava kalam katum yava na sotapatti,phalam sacchikaroti.

He is incapable of doing any intentional deed by which he might be reborn in hell, or in the animal birth, or in the ghost realm.
He is incapable of dying without having attained the fruit of streamwinning.


Ngintip di thread sebelah (http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=16277.msg263193#msg263193), Samanera Peacemind mengatakan bahwa kitab sub-komentar untuk sutta di atas menyebutkan "keempat kelompok manusia di atas adalah mereka yang telah menembus kebenaran (saccapaṭivedha). Artinya, mereka setidaknya telah mencapai kesucian sotapanna". Sementara kalau menurut interpretasi saya di atas, tidak perlu telah merealisasikan sotapanna-phala, tetapi bisa masih berada dalam sotapanna-magga sebagai Saddha-nusari (walaupun dalam Abhidhamma dikatakan bahwa realisasi magga dan pala hanya berbeda 1 momen). Tetapi apapun itu, keduanya mengacu pada konteks "Sangha" sebagai "Ariya Sangha"

CMIIW too :)

Mettacittena,
Luis

penjelasan yang masuk akal, dan selama Sangha di sana tidak diartikan sebagai kelompok putthujjana, saya masih bisa menerimanya dengan lega ... ;)

Offline Indra

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Terima kasih Bro Indra untuk tambahan artikelnya. Ya, saya juga sangat menyayangkan gerakan "lay-sangha" ini, dan inilah yang merupakan kerancuan interpretasi parisa dan sangha. Implikasinya sangat serius, karena gerakan ini seolah2 me-delegitimasi komunitas monastik sebagai komunitas paling kondusif untuk merealisasikan nibbana. Dan sayangnya, inilah yang terjadi di tradisi Zen Jepang. Semoga ini jadi pelajaran bagi kita semua supaya degradasi ke Dhamma-ending-age bisa diperlambat :) 

dan gerakan ini juga sudah masuk ke indonesia. dan hal ini menimbulkan efek negatif yg cukup mengkhawatirkan, karena kesetaraan Sangha "monastic" dan "lay" ini, ada "biku" yg malah berperilaku selayaknya umat awam.
« Last Edit: 16 October 2010, 12:17:54 AM by Indra »

Offline Mokau Kaucu

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Terima kasih Bro Indra untuk tambahan artikelnya. Ya, saya juga sangat menyayangkan gerakan "lay-sangha" ini, dan inilah yang merupakan kerancuan interpretasi parisa dan sangha. Implikasinya sangat serius, karena gerakan ini seolah2 me-delegitimasi komunitas monastik sebagai komunitas paling kondusif untuk merealisasikan nibbana. Dan sayangnya, inilah yang terjadi di tradisi Zen Jepang. Semoga ini jadi pelajaran bagi kita semua supaya degradasi ke Dhamma-ending-age bisa diperlambat :) 

dan gerakan ini juga sudah masuk ke indonesia. dan hal ini menimbulkan efek negatif yg cukup mengkhawatirkan, karena kesetaraan Sangha "monastic" dan "lay" ini, ada "biku" yg malah berperilaku selayaknya umat awam.

Betul, tanpa menarik garis yang jelas antara kewajiban sebagai bhikkhu dengan kewajiban umat awam, maka akan menimbulkan kerancuan. Umat awam berdandan dan berlagak sebagai bhikkhu, bhikkhu berperilaku seperti umat awam, hangout di cafe, ikut acara api unggun muda mudi, berjualan patung, barang antik, jimat bahkan mungkin punya keluarga yg disembunyikan di kota lain.

Kalau sudah rancu seperti itu, makin banyak pemalas yang tidak mau bekerja keras akanmemasuki arena Buddhism dengan tujuan cari uang gampang, dihormati umat, hidup santai.

Dan kita yang mengungkapkan hal hal ini akan dicap sebagai kolot , ketinggalan jaman .
~Life is suffering, why should we make it more?~