Mengapa Aku Condong Ke Theravada?

[markosprawira]

tapi inti nya saya ingin menyatakan hal ini untuk semua baik aliran apapun.. yang saya tahu.. aliran kita semua menuju 1 yang pasti.. nibbana.. ^^

karena saya belum mencapai nibbana, saya ga bisa memastikan kebenaran bhw semua aliran PASTI menuju nibbana

[Jerry]

tapi inti nya saya ingin menyatakan hal ini untuk semua baik aliran apapun.. yang saya tahu.. aliran kita semua menuju 1 yang pasti.. nibbana.. ^^

karena saya belum mencapai nibbana, saya ga bisa memastikan kebenaran bhw semua aliran PASTI menuju nibbana

Tapi Ajahn Chah, pernah mengatakan semua agama - bukan sekedar sekte buddhisme lho - adalah kendaraan2 berbeda yang menuju tujuan yg sama. Gmn pendapatnya Om Markus?

[char101]

Tapi Ajahn Chah, pernah mengatakan semua agama - bukan sekedar sekte buddhisme lho - adalah kendaraan2 berbeda yang menuju tujuan yg sama.

Mungkin maksud Ajahn Chah, agama Theravada, agama Mahayana, agama Tanra, agama Zen

[Indra]

Tapi Ajahn Chah, pernah mengatakan semua agama - bukan sekedar sekte buddhisme lho - adalah kendaraan2 berbeda yang menuju tujuan yg sama.

Mungkin maksud Ajahn Chah, agama Theravada, agama Mahayana, agama Tanra, agama Zen

masuk akal

[Ario_botax]

#markos:
yup.. memang betul, karena aliran tersebut menyebut akan nibbana.. kalau kita benar-benar tekun berlatih.. baik kita aliran apapun..
kita pasti akan mencapai yang dinamakan nibbana (entah untuk Theravada, nibbana itu adalah tujuan akhir atau untuk aliran yang lain bahwa nibbana itu bukanlah tujuan akhir, karena harus sempurna pada tingkat sammasambuddha).. intinya dalam aliran tersebut.. setidaknya kita akan mampir.. atau mengecap rasa nibbana.. maka jalanilah aliran yang sudah anda yakini.. begitu... ^^

pernah mendengar dari seorang teman. Dia membaca buku mengenai Ajahn (Chah atau Mun). Ketika itu dikatakan bahwa sekelompok bhikku ada yang sedang berdiskusi hingga berdebat mengenai "Tingkat mana yang lebih tinggi, menjadi Savaka buddha (arahat) atau Bodhisattva?". Hingga akhirnya Ajahn tersebut masuk ke ruangan tempat para bhikku itu berdebat dan menyatakan " Berhentilah untuk menjadi. Untuk keluar dari lingkaran ini maka harus berhenti untuk menjadi (bhava tanha). Selama masih ada pikiran untuk menjadi, maka tidak akan lepas dari dunia ini."

Trus setelah lebih lanjut, g diceritain maksudnya itu, kita jangan mengharap untuk harus menjadi ini atau menjadi itu. Biarkan kita praktek dan let it flow. Semakin kita ingin untuk menjadi sesuatu. Artinya kita bukan melepas tapi malah mengikat.

mengenai ceritanya CMIIW.. karena g hanya mendengar saja dan g rasa bermanfaat buat kita yang sedang praktek (hanya untuk mengingatkan saja).


#Jerry:
hmm.. agama apapun yang umatnya menerapkan hasta ariya magga.. (jalan mulia berunsur
maka kemungkinan untuk tercerahkan itu pasti ada.
Hal ini pernah saya baca pada topik dari teman saya. mengenai seorang Katholik yang telah mencapai tahapan no self (anatta). Dan beliau menuangkannya ke dalam buku.. setelah saya baca, sepertinya Beliau memang benar-benar telah mencapai.. terlihat dari bahasa tulisannya dan pengalaman Beliau dalam buku tersebut..

[Jerry]

Meski nilai sekuler tengah melanda dan menyerbu dunia dan berbagai nilai yg ada di dalamnya, termasuk agama terpaksa menghadapi tuntutan utk bersikap terbuka.. Dan bahwa Sang Buddha mengajarkan agar kita menghindari sikap fanatisme, namun keyakinan thdp keberadaan Ti-Ratana yg unik merupakan hal yg tdk boleh ditawar2 atau dikompromikan bagi seorang yg mengaku buddhis. Keyakinan seorang buddhis adalah bahwa Sang Buddha merupakan sosok unik yg tiada duanya, tak tergantikan dan tak terbandingi oleh guru2 lain, sebagaimana disebutkan dlm Buddhanussati. Berikutnya keyakinan bahwa dhamma yg diajarkan Sang Buddha memiliki kualitas spt dlm Dhammanussati dan keyakinan bahwa Buddha-dhamma inilah yg dapat menuntun kita pd ujung pencapaian. Dan terakhir, bahwa Ariya Sangha memiliki kualitas sbgmn dlm Sanghanussati dan keyakinan dalam ajaran lain tidak diketemukan adanya ariya puggala. Mengapa?

Ini jawaban penjelasan Sang Buddha bagi mereka yang merasa inklusif, pluralis - yang "yakin" dalam ajaran lain ditemukan pembebasan.

MN 11
Cula-sihanada Sutta: The Shorter Discourse on the Lion's Roar

1. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's Park. There he addressed the bhikkhus thus: "Bhikkhus." — "Venerable sir," they replied. The Blessed One said this:

2. "Bhikkhus, only here is there a recluse, only here a second recluse, only here a third recluse, only here a fourth recluse. The doctrines of others are devoid of recluses: that is how you should rightly roar your lion's roar.

3. "It is possible, bhikkhus, that wanderers of other sects might ask: 'But on the strength of what (argument) or with the support of what (authority) do the venerable ones say thus?' Wanderers of other sects who ask thus may be answered in this way: 'Friends, four things have been declared to us by the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened; on seeing these in ourselves we say thus: "Only here is there a recluse, only here a second recluse, only here a third recluse, only here a fourth recluse. The doctrines of others are devoid of recluses." What are the four? We have confidence in the Teacher, we have confidence in the Dhamma, we have fulfilled the precepts, and our companions in the Dhamma are dear and agreeable to us whether they are layfolk or those gone forth. These are the four things declared to us by the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened, on seeing which in ourselves we say as we do.'

4. "It is possible, bhikkhus, that wanderers of other sects might say thus: 'Friends, we too have confidence in the Teacher, that is, in our Teacher; we too have confidence in the Dhamma, that is, in our Dhamma; we too have fulfilled the precepts, that is, our precepts; our companions in the Dhamma are dear and agreeable to us too whether they are layfolk or those gone forth. What is the distinction here, friends, what is the variance, what is the difference between you and us?'

5. "Wanderers of other sects who ask thus may be answered in this way: 'How then, friends, is the goal one or many?' Answering rightly, the wanderers of other sects would answer thus: 'Friends, the goal is one, not many.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one affected by lust or free from lust?' Answering rightly, the wanderers of other sects would answer thus: 'Friends, that goal is for one free from lust, not for one affected by lust.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one affected by hate or free from hate?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one free from hate, not for one affected by hate.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one affected by delusion or free from delusion?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one free from delusion, not for one affected by delusion.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one affected by craving or free from craving?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one free from craving, not for one affected by craving.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one affected by clinging or free from clinging?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one free from clinging, not for one affected by clinging.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one who has vision or for one without vision?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one with vision, not for one without vision.' — 'But, friends, is that goal for one who favors and opposes, or for one who does not favor and oppose?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one who does not favor and oppose, not for one who favors and opposes.' — 'But, friends is that goal for one who delights in and enjoys proliferation, or for one who does not delight in and enjoy proliferation?' Answering rightly, they would answer: 'Friends, that goal is for one who does not delight in and enjoy proliferation, not for one who delights in and enjoys proliferation.'

6. "Bhikkhus, there are these two views: the view of being and the view of non-being. Any recluses or brahmans who rely on the view of being, adopt the view of being, accept the view of being, are opposed to the view of non-being. Any recluses or brahmans who rely on the view of non-being, adopt the view of non-being, accept the view of non-being, are opposed to the view of being.

7. "Any recluses or brahmans who do not understand as they actually are the origin, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger and the escape in the case of these two views are affected by lust, affected by hate, affected by delusion, affected by craving, affected by clinging, without vision, given to favoring and opposing, and they delight in and enjoy proliferation. They are not freed from birth, aging and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair; they are not freed from suffering, I say.

8. "Any recluses or brahmans who understand as they actually are the origin, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger and the escape in the case of these two views are without lust, without hate, without delusion, without craving, without clinging, with vision, not given to favoring and opposing, and they do not delight in and enjoy proliferation. They are freed from birth, aging and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair; they are freed from suffering, I say.

9. "Bhikkhus, there are these four kinds of clinging. What four? Clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rules and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self.

10. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging, they do not completely describe the full understanding of all kinds of clinging. They describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures without describing the full understanding of clinging to views, clinging to rules and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self. Why is that? Those good recluses and brahmans do not understand these three instances of clinging as they actually are. Therefore, though they claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging, they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures without describing the full understanding of clinging to views, clinging to rules and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self.

11. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging... they describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures and clinging to views without describing the full understanding of clinging to rules and observances and clinging to a doctrine of self. Why is that? They do not understand two instances... therefore they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures and clinging to views without describing the full understanding of clinging to rules and observances and clinging to a doctrine of self.

12. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging... they describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self. They do not understand one instance... therefore they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self.

13. "Bhikkhus, in such a Dhamma and Discipline as that it is plain that confidence in the Teacher is not rightly directed, that confidence in the Dhamma is not rightly directed, that fulfillment of the precepts is not rightly directed, and that the affection among companions in the Dhamma is not rightly directed. Why is that? Because that is how it is when the Dhamma and Discipline is badly proclaimed and badly expounded, unemancipating, unconducive to peace, expounded by one who is not fully enlightened.

14. "Bhikkhus, when a Tathagata, accomplished and fully enlightened, claims to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging, he completely describes the full understanding of all kinds of clinging: he describes the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, clinging to rules and observances, and clinging to a doctrine of self.

15. "Bhikkhus, in such a Dhamma and Discipline as that it is plain that confidence in the Teacher is rightly directed, that confidence in the Dhamma is rightly directed, that fulfillment of the precepts is rightly directed, and that the affection among companions in the Dhamma is rightly directed. Why is that? Because that is how it is when the Dhamma and Discipline is well proclaimed and well expounded, emancipating, conducive to peace, expounded by one who is fully enlightened.

16. "Now these four kinds of clinging have what as their source, what as their origin, from what are they born and produced? These four kinds of clinging have craving as their source, craving as their origin, they are born and produced from craving. Craving has what as its source...? Craving has feeling as its source... Feeling has what as its source...? Feeling has contact as its source... Contact has what as its source...? Contact has the sixfold base as its source... The sixfold base has what as its source...? The sixfold base has mentality-materiality as its source... Mentality-materiality has what as its source...? Mentality-materiality has consciousness as its source... Consciousness has what as its source...? Consciousness has formations as its source... Formations have what as their source...? Formations have ignorance as their source, ignorance as their origin; they are born and produced from ignorance.

17. "Bhikkhus, when ignorance is abandoned and true knowledge has arisen in a bhikkhu, then with the fading away of ignorance and the arising of true knowledge he no longer clings to sensual pleasures, no longer clings to views, no longer clings to rules and observances, no longer clings to a doctrine of self. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: 'Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.

Mettacittena,

[Indra]

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[Sumedho]

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[Jerry]

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