alam neraka siapa yg bertugas

[OBAMA]

memang ada beberapa pihak yang mengatakan beberapa bagian dari sutta merupakan tambahan belakangan. dengan kata lain beberapa bhikkhu  yang konon sudah arahat melakukan penipuan dengan memalsukan tipitaka.

tetapi masih ada juga yang mengatakan tipitaka masih asli.

Arahat masih bisa menipu? aneh bin ajaib     Yang lebih mungkin bhikkhu scholar non arahat atau scholar buddhist yang suka utak atik gatuk tipitaka .
Pada point ini banyak kesimpang siuran tipitaka. Jadi sangat meragukan keontentikannya. Waspadalah! gunakan kebijaksaan jangan menelan mentah-mentah apa yang tertulis. lihat dhammanusati

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

atau konon yang ikut konsili sangha parajika semua? gak arahat ngaku-ngaku arahat?

[OBAMA]

atau konon yang ikut konsili sangha parajika semua? gak arahat ngaku-ngaku arahat?

Bisa jadi bila itu versi anda.

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

kalau saya sih cenderung mengikuti konsili terakhir.

[seniya]

 [at] indra:

Hehehe.... Saya cuma pny sumber penjelasan/komentar atas Devaduta Sutta dr Piya Tan ini & cuma menyampaikan apa yg saya baca....
Mgkn sdr. Indra punya referensi lain penjelasan sutta dr sumber yg lbh dipercaya,misalny dr kitab komentar. Atau kt hrs tunggu komentar para sam dulu....

[wang ai lie]

maaf bro seniya , yang saya pikirkan , apa mungkin jika itu benar merupakan anekdot dalam membabarkan dhamma .
seorang buddha yang telah mencapai pencerahan sempurna dengan segala kelebihannya akan berani mengucapkan seperti ini?

29. “Para bhikkhu, Aku mengatakan hal ini kepada kalian bukan sebagai sesuatu yang Kudengar dari petapa atau brahmana lain. Aku mengatakan hal ini kepada kalian sebagai sesuatu yang sebenarnya diketahui, dilihat, dan ditemukan olehKu sendiri.” [187]

dan dari kata ini yang masih mengganjal di benak saya, apakah seorang buddha akan mengucapkan kata kosong tanpa bukti untuk umatnya?
 

[dilbert]

Arahat masih bisa menipu? aneh bin ajaib     Yang lebih mungkin bhikkhu scholar non arahat atau scholar buddhist yang suka utak atik gatuk tipitaka .
Pada point ini banyak kesimpang siuran tipitaka. Jadi sangat meragukan keontentikannya. Waspadalah! gunakan kebijaksaan jangan menelan mentah-mentah apa yang tertulis. lihat dhammanusati

Menurut kisah konsili sangha pertama, Ananda yang baru saja pada malam hari sebelum konsili sangha pertama mencapai tingkat kesucian Arahat, kemudian Hadir ke "arena" konsili dengan terbang sebagai salah satu indikasi bahwa Ananda sudah mencapai tingkat kesucian Arahat (Savaka), dalam dalam berbagai kesempatan sebenarnya KADANG-KADANG para arahat savaka sendiri bisa tidak mengenali tingkat kesucian arahat masing-masing, hanya kemampuan seorang arahat sammasambuddha dengan kemahatahuannya yang bisa mengenali semua tingkat pencapaian.

Jadi mungkin saja kalau para arahat pada saat ini berkumpul, menurut saya, demonstrasi tingkat kemampuan bathin bisa merupakan salah satu justifikasi atas pencapaian tingkat kesucian Arahat. CMIIW

[moejaer]

Jadi mungkin saja kalau para arahat pada saat ini berkumpul, menurut saya, demonstrasi tingkat kemampuan bathin bisa merupakan salah satu justifikasi atas pencapaian tingkat kesucian Arahat. CMIIW

jika para arahat berkumpul, mereka tak akan demontrasi tingkat kemampuan batin, krn ada yg lebi penting dr pertunjukan kekuatan....
paling tidak mereka akan minum teh bersama....
 

[pannadevi]

[at] indra:

Hehehe.... Saya cuma pny sumber penjelasan/komentar atas Devaduta Sutta dr Piya Tan ini & cuma menyampaikan apa yg saya baca....
Mgkn sdr. Indra punya referensi lain penjelasan sutta dr sumber yg lbh dipercaya,misalny dr kitab komentar. Atau kt hrs tunggu komentar para sam dulu....

saya bantu dikit ya bro Seniya yg baik,

kalo menurut saya pribadi, Nibbana adalah kondisi bathin yg telah terbebas, demikian pula Neraka adalah kondisi bathin yg tersiksa. saya ilustrasikan begini bro, dikala orang2 menyakiti saya maka hati sy serasa teriris2, bagaikan 100 pedang mengiris2 sungguh pedih sekali, ketika banyak orang menghina saya dan menghakimi saya, maka hati saya bagai dipanggang dlm panggangan api yg luar biasa besarnya membakar seluruhnya hingga luluh tanpa sisa. ketika saya terbuang dari masyarakat bagaikan saya ditindih dengan bongkahan batu yg besar sekali hingga saya tak mampu bernafas, dll. ini hanya ilustrasi saya utk menggambarkan kondisi bathin yg tersiksa, bagai dalam Neraka.

mungkin lebih jelasnya coba kita baca Sutta Lonaphala :

sumber :
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.099.than.html

Spoiler: ShowHide

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.099.than.html
AN 3.99
PTS: A i 249
Thai III.101
Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt Crystal
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2008–2011
Translator's note: For a discussion of this discourse in the general context of the Buddha's teaching on kamma (karma), see "Kamma & the Ending of Kamma" in The Wings to Awakening.
"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress.
"There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.[1] A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"
"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."
"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"
"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."
"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual [the first] takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in the body, [2] undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind [i.e., painful feelings can invade the mind and stay there], undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering.   A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
'Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in the body,[3] developed in virtue, developed in mind [i.e., painful feelings cannot invade the mind and stay there], developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the unlimited. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"There is the case where a certain person is thrown into jail for half a dollar (kahapana), is thrown into jail for a dollar, is thrown into jail for one hundred dollars. And there is the case where another person is not thrown into jail for half a dollar, is not thrown into jail for a dollar, is not thrown into jail for one hundred dollars. Now what sort of person is thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars? There is the case where a person is poor, of little wealth, of few possessions. This is the sort of person who is thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars. And what sort of person is not thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars? There is the case where a person is wealthy, with many belongings, many possessions. This is the sort of person who is not thrown into jail for half a dollar... for a dollar... for one hundred dollars.
"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"It's just as when a goat butcher is empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes a certain person who steals a goat, but is not empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes another person who steals a goat. Now, when what sort of person has stolen a goat is the goat butcher empowered to beat him or bind him or slay him or treat him as he likes? There is the case where a person is poor, of little wealth, of few possessions. This is the sort of person who, when he has stolen a goat, the goat butcher is empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes. And when what sort of person has stolen a goat is the goat butcher not empowered to beat him or bind him or slay him or treat him as he likes? There is the case where a person is wealthy, with many belongings, many possessions; a king or a king's minister. This is the sort of person who, when he has stolen a goat, the goat butcher is not empowered to beat or bind or slay or treat as he likes. All he can do is go with his hands clasped before his heart and beg: 'Please, dear sir, give me a goat or the price of a goat.'
"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.
"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress."
Notes
1.
Immeasurable concentration. See also AN 3.65.
2.
I.e., pleasant feelings can invade the mind and stay there — see MN 36.
3.
I.e., pleasant feelings cannot invade the mind and stay there.
See also: MN 86; MN 101; AN 3.33; AN 10.208.

dari uraian Sutta ini, sy ambil langsung kesimpulan Sutta yaitu 3 paragraf akhir. kalo dari penjelasan uraian udah dijelaskan oleh Sang Buddha ibarat sejimpit garam dimasukkan dlm sungai maka tidak akan berpengaruh apa2.

dan kesimpulannya dari Sutta ini,
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress."


artinya :

Spoiler: ShowHide

"Sekarang, sesuatu perbuatan jahat yang sepele apakah telah dilakukan oleh seseorang akan membawanya ke neraka? Ada kasus dimana seseorang tertentu yang belum mengembangkan dalam [merenungkan] tubuh, mengembangkan  kebajikan, mengembangkan  pikiran,  mengembangkan kearifan: terbatas, kecil-hati, hidup dengan penderitaan. Sebuah perbuatan jahat  sepele yang demikian yang dilakukan oleh seseorang semacam ini membawanya ke neraka.

"Sekarang, sesuatu perbuatan jahat yang sepele apakah telah dilakukan oleh seseorang yang dialami di sini & sekarang, dan untuk sebagian besar tidak muncul sebentar? Ada kasus dimana seseorang tertentu mengembangkan dalam [merenungkan] tubuh, mengembangkan  kebajikan, mengembangkan  pikiran,  mengembangkan kearifan: tidak dibatasi, besar-hati, hidup dengan tanpa batas hingga tak terhingga, maka sesuatu perbuatan jahat yang sepele telah dilakukan oleh seseorang yang dialami di sini & sekarang, dan untuk sebagian besar hampir tidak muncul untuk beberapa saat .

"Monks, bagi siapa saja yang berkata," Dalam cara apa pun seseorang membuat kamma, yaitu bagaimana ia berpengalaman, 'tidak ada yang hidup dari kehidupan suci, tidak ada kesempatan untuk mengakhiri hak stres Namun bagi siapa saja. yang mengatakan , 'Ketika seseorang membuat kamma merasakan sedemikian & sedemikian rupa, yaitu adalah sebagaimana hasilnya yang telah dialami,' ada kehidupan dalam kehidupan suci, sebuah kesempatan hak untuk mengakhiri stres. "

jadi kondisi bathin yg mengalami langsung itulah yang dimaksudkan.

dalam kuliah saya memang belum pernah membahas masalah Neraka, tapi saya mencoba bantu menjawab dg Sutta Lonaphala dari Anguttara Nikaya. CMIIW.

mettacittena,

[Indra]

 [at]  Pannadevi,

jadi bagaimna dengan Devadatta yg konon terlahir kembali di Avici? jika alam neraka itu adalah kondisi batin? dimanakah Devadatta itu berada saat ini?

[pannadevi]

[at]  Pannadevi,

jadi bagaimna dengan Devadatta yg konon terlahir kembali di Avici? jika alam neraka itu adalah kondisi batin? dimanakah Devadatta itu berada saat ini?

hehehe....ini juga ganjalan hati saya....karena memang Neraka paling terberat dan terganas adalah Neraka Avici, seperti yg dialami Devadatta karena melukai Sang Buddha. sesuai tingkatan alam yg telah dikenal oleh kita semua. jadi bingung juga nih saya. secara pribadi saya juga menyakini kondisi bathin tersiksa saat kinipun ibaratnya kita juga udah tersiksa bak di Neraka. tapi Neraka Avici juga ada, itu juga yg masih jadi ganjalan hati sy. makanya sy katakan CMIIW.

[kusalaputto]

 [at] pannadevi samaneri bs tanya k dosennya tent alm nrka. Soalnya kalau d blg hanya kondisi batin kurang pas yah kan alam nya dikatakan ada.jd makin biggung deh tent nih alam neraka
 

[moejaer]

hehehe....ini juga ganjalan hati saya....karena memang Neraka paling terberat dan terganas adalah Neraka Avici, seperti yg dialami Devadatta karena melukai Sang Buddha. sesuai tingkatan alam yg telah dikenal oleh kita semua. jadi bingung juga nih saya. secara pribadi saya juga menyakini kondisi bathin tersiksa saat kinipun ibaratnya kita juga udah tersiksa bak di Neraka. tapi Neraka Avici juga ada, itu juga yg masih jadi ganjalan hati sy. makanya sy katakan CMIIW.

setau saya, alam neraka terutama neraka avici itu ada dan yg d hukum d situ adalah roh2 manusia....

kl kondisi batin tersiksa bisa d ibarat kan d dalam neraka bearti ke "aku"an nya masi sangat kuat,kelekatan nya akan diri nya yg blum musnah.....

roh2 yg ada d neraka aja ingin bisa kembali hidup d dunia buat memperbaiki kesalahan nya, malah byk org yg masi hidup merasa seperti d dalam neraka...

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

sejak kapan ajaran Sang Buddha mengenal "roh" ?
setahu saya sudah diajarkan, sabbe dhamma anatta.

[Sunyata]

Kalau ritual bakar-bakar uang kertas apa bener uangnya masuk ke neraka? Ngapain di neraka bawa uang?