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Author Topic: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana  (Read 24611 times)

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Offline Sumedho

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2012, 11:00:13 AM »
yg mau dicoba adalah kembali ke root kata yg dimaksud, misalnya kata eling, itu kan maknanya berbeda antara kamus dan apa yg mungkin kita persepsikan unless kita mau redefine kata itu which is less preferred. Definisi kamus cuma buat guidance aja sih dalam memilih kata supaya kgk salah makna dan kita menggunakan kata yg sesuai dengan "isinya" bukan asal translate bulet2.

Sayangnya bukan cuma istilah meditai aja, buanyak istilah buddhism yg begini nih. :(




let's coba2 nih

Sati…

Quote
“Dan apakah, para bhikkhu, perhatian benar? Di sini, para bhikkhu, seorang bhikkhu merenungkan jasmani di dalam jasmani, tekun, memahami dengan jelas, penuh perhatian, setelah melenyapkan keserakahan dan ketidaknyamanan sehubungan dengan dunia. Ia merenungkan perasaan di dalam perasaan, tekun, memahami dengan jelas, penuh perhatian, setelah melenyapkan keserakahan dan ketidaknyamanan sehubungan dengan dunia. Ia merenungkan pikiran di dalam pikiran, tekun, [10] memahami dengan jelas, penuh perhatian, setelah melenyapkan keserakahan dan ketidaknyamanan sehubungan dengan dunia. Ia merenungkan fenomena di dalam fenomena, tekun, memahami dengan jelas, penuh perhatian, setelah melenyapkan keserakahan dan ketidaknyamanan sehubungan dengan dunia. Ini disebut perhatian benar.

itu base nya dari Sati / Mindfulness yg ditranslate jadi perhatian. dalam penjelasan detailnya dalamnya adalah anupassi/anupassati yg artinya memang merenungkan.

kata kunci dari mindfulness kan Aware, lebih kearah kata 'sadar'/'menyadari'. nah mau kata apa yg cantik utk mengisi slot ini nih… *sakit pala*

beberapa contoh lainnya

Quote
Mindfulness of death
Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness…

Disatu sisi, manasikara itu secara arti mengarah pada perhatian pulak / awareness *sakit pala*




 [at] indra:

kalo gitu sati = manasikara yg murni?

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Offline Sumedho

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #16 on: 22 May 2012, 11:03:57 AM »
so far, manasikara diterjemahkan sama dengan sati, yaitu perhatian :|
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Offline Indra

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #17 on: 22 May 2012, 11:07:54 AM »
seharusnya sati=xxx, manasikara=zzz, sudah cukup, tidak perlu komentar yg lebih dari 3 atau 4 kata.

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #18 on: 22 May 2012, 11:10:59 AM »
ini namanya brainstorming, mengeluarkan semua pendapat dan ide. direnungkan, di anupassi, baru keluar hasil yg :jempol:

sabar… it's part of the process
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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #19 on: 22 May 2012, 11:12:35 AM »
sample manasikara

‘‘Mayhaṃ kho, bhikkhave, yoniso manasikārā yoniso sammappadhānā anuttarā vimutti anuppattā, anuttarā vimutti sacchikatā. Tumhepi, bhikkhave, yoniso manasikārā yoniso sammappadhānā anuttaraṃ vimuttiṃ anupāpuṇātha, anuttaraṃ vimuttiṃ sacchikarothā’’ti. Atha kho māro pāpimā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ gāthāya ajjhabhāsi –


“Para bhikkhu, dengan perhatian seksama, dengan usaha benar seksama, Aku telah sampai pada kebebasan yang tiada bandingnya, Aku telah mengalami kebebasan yang tiada bandingnya. Kalian juga, dengan perhatian seksama, dengan usaha benar seksama, harus sampai pada kebebasan yang tiada bandingnya, harus mengalami kebebasan yang tiada bandingnya.”[2]
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Offline Indra

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #20 on: 22 May 2012, 11:15:44 AM »
itu bukan sample yg tepat, kata "yoniso" sudah cukup membedakan

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #21 on: 22 May 2012, 11:27:36 AM »
sati mindfulness

attentiveness
heedfulness
awareness
careful
remember
staying aware
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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #22 on: 22 May 2012, 11:33:06 AM »
consideration from bhikkhu thanissaro

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/foodforawakening.html

The Pali term for attention is manasikara. You may have heard that the term for mindfulness — sati — means attention, but that's not how the Buddha used the term. Mindfulness, in his usage, means keeping something in mind. It's a function of memory. When you practice the establishings of mindfulness (satipatthana), you remain focused on observing the object you've chosen as your frame of reference: the body, feelings, mind, or mental qualities in and of themselves. This is called anupassana. Mindfulness is one of three qualities you bring to anupassana. Its function is to keep your frame of reference in mind, to keep remembering it. At the same time, you have to be alert (sampajana), clearly aware of what you're doing, to make sure that you're actually doing what you're trying to remember to do; and ardent (atapi) to do it skillfully. The act of establishing mindfulness in this way — by being mindful, alert, and ardent — then forms the topic or theme (nimitta) of right concentration.

For instance, if you focus on the breath in and of itself as your frame of reference, anupassana means keeping continual watch over the breath. Mindfulness means simply remembering to stick with it, keeping it in mind at all times; whereas alertness means knowing what the breath is doing and how well you're staying with it. Ardency is the effort to do all of this skillfully. When all these activities stay fully coordinated, they form the theme of your concentration.

To understand how appropriate attention functions in the context of this training, though, you first have to understand how attention ordinarily functions in an untrained mind.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2012, 11:36:23 AM by Sumedho »
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Offline ryu

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #23 on: 22 May 2012, 11:36:36 AM »
bahasa inggris pun bingung juga tuh =))

In Pāli texts, the term manasikara refers to a state of “directed attention”, where e.g. an adept directs his attention at a certain phenomenon in meditation. The same use is also known for the term manaskāra in Sanskrit.

At the same time, in Buddhist epistemological treatises within the fold of the pramāṇa tradition, “manaskāra” features as one of a set of causes for perception. Perception, paradigmatically sense-perception, arises out of an object, a sense-faculty, potential additional factors such as light in the case of visual perception, and a preceding moment of consciousness termed “manaskāra”. This is usually also translated as “attention”.

In conversations here and there, it has occurred to me that there is some confusion about what “manaskāra” in Buddhist epistemology actually is. If “attention” is required for a perception to arise, this suggests the participation of some kind of directionality of the mind in the causation of perception. One is looking for something to eat and sees food.

But to my understanding, “manaskāra” in Buddhist epistemology functions not to direct one’s mind towards specific objects, but in a much weaker sense: to ensure that the perceiving subject is not asleep, not afflicted by diseases that obstruct perceptions, not intoxicated, and so forth. It is not an “attention” towards something in particular, but a general condition of normality on the part of the mind-stream. This differs from earlier uses of “manasikara”/”manaskāra”.

Can this weaker sense still be understood from the translation “attention” or should we look for a better term? I thought of “attentiveness”, but it might have the same misleading connotations.

This deserves to be followed up: are there any explicit discussions in Sanskrit texts on this topic?
Janganlah memperhatikan kesalahan dan hal-hal yang telah atau belum dikerjakan oleh diri sendiri. Tetapi, perhatikanlah apa yang telah dikerjakan dan apa yang belum dikerjakan oleh orang lain =))

Offline ryu

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #24 on: 22 May 2012, 11:39:18 AM »
Related terms and practices
Although sati/smrti is the primary term that is usually invoked by the word mindfulness in a Buddhist context, it has been asserted "in Buddhist discourse, there are three terms that together map the field of mindfulness . . . [in their Sanskrit variants] smṛti (Pali: sati), samprajaña (Pali: sampajañña) and apramāda (Pali: appamada)."[17] All three terms are sometimes (confusingly) translated as "mindfulness," but they all have specific shades of meaning and the latter two properly mean "clear comprehension" and "vigilance," respectively. In the Satipatthana Sutta, sati and sampajañña are combined with atappa (Pali; Sanskrit: ātapaḥ), or "ardency," and the three together comprise yoniso manisikara (Pali; Sanskrit: yoniśas manaskāraḥ), "appropriate attention" or "wise reflection."[18]
In a publicly available correspondence between Bhikkhu Bodhi and B. Alan Wallace, Bodhi has described Ven. Nyanaponika Thera's views on "right mindfulness" and sampajañña in the following fashion: "... He held that in the proper practice of right mindfulness, sati has to be integrated with sampajañña, clear comprehension, and it is only when these two work together that right mindfulness can fulfill its intended purpose."[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
Janganlah memperhatikan kesalahan dan hal-hal yang telah atau belum dikerjakan oleh diri sendiri. Tetapi, perhatikanlah apa yang telah dikerjakan dan apa yang belum dikerjakan oleh orang lain =))

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #25 on: 22 May 2012, 04:53:45 PM »
The terms sati/smriti have been translated as:

Attention (Jack Kornfield)
Awareness
Concentrated attention (Mahasi Sayadaw)
Inspection (Herbert Guenther)
Mindfulness
Self-recollection (Jack Kornfield)
Recollecting mindfulness (Alexander Berzin)
Recollection (Erik Pema Kunsang, Buddhadasa Bhikkhu)
Reflective awareness (Buddhadasa Bhikkhu)
Retention



In the Āgamas of early Buddhism, there are ten forms of mindfulness. According to the Ekottara Āgama, these ten are:[20]
Mindfulness of the Buddha;
Mindfulness of the Dharma;
Mindfulness of the Saṃgha;
Mindfulness of giving;
Mindfulness of the heavens;
Mindfulness of stopping and resting;
Mindfulness of discipline;
Mindfulness of breathing;
Mindfulness of the body;
Mindfulness of death.
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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #26 on: 22 May 2012, 08:23:35 PM »
udah sepakat ?
Seringlah PancaKhanda direnungkan sebagai Ini Bukan MILIKKU, Ini Bukan AKU, Ini Bukan DIRIKU, bermanfaat mengurangi keSERAKAHan, mengurangi keSOMBONGan, Semoga dapat menjauhi Pandangan SALAH.

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #27 on: 22 May 2012, 08:53:27 PM »
belum
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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #28 on: 22 May 2012, 09:31:05 PM »
yoniso manasikara = sati + sampajanna + appamada

ada penampakan manasikara tanpa yoniso atau ayoniso?

jika, takada maka lebih mudah
« Last Edit: 22 May 2012, 09:41:13 PM by Sumedho »
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Offline Sumedho

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Re: Penerjemahan Sati, Manasikara dan Vinnana
« Reply #29 on: 23 May 2012, 07:11:50 AM »
dalam MN banyak Manasikara, which is dalam struktur kalimatnya dah pas.

Manasikara= Perhatian

confirmed
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anything