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Offline chingik

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #15 on: 20 January 2009, 12:51:40 PM »
dear chingik

Dana paramitta adalah salah satu dari dasa parami yg harus disempurnakan oleh seorang Bodhisatta
Tapi bukan berarti, dana paramita harus dengan mengajar loh.....

Dana itu sendiri terdiri dari :
1. Amisadana (pemberian materi)
2. Dhammadana (pemberian kebenaran)
3. Abhayadana (pemberian kehidupan)

Mengajar adalah salah satu bentuk dari Dhammadana, tapi bukan berarti Dhammadana harus selalu mengajar

Dhammadana bisa dilakukan dalam bnyk hal misal
- memberi nasihat
- memberitahu jalan yg benar bagi org asing
- memberitahu dhamma yg benar

dan masih banyak Dhammadana loh.......

Jadi kembali ke konsep bhw "selama masih ada ajaran sammasambuddha terdahulu seperti disebut oleh bro dilbert diatas", maka bodhisatta tidak bisa membabarkan/mengajarkan ajarannya

Tapi bodhisatta bisa mengajarkan spt bhikkhu mengajarkan umat2nya, bukan "ajarannya sendiri"

Walau inti dari ajaran buddha adalah sama (Mahapadana sutta) yaitu :
"Kesabaran adalah tapa yang paling tinggi
Para Buddha bersabda: "Nibbana yang tertinggi dari segala sesuatu"
Beliau bukanlah pertapa yang merugikan orang lain atau pertapa yang tidak menyebabkan orang lain menjadi susah.
Tidak melakukan kejahatan,
Mengembangkan kebajikan,
Mensucikan batin.
Itulah ajaran para Buddha
Tidak memfitnah, tidak menganiaya
Mengendalikan diri sesuai dengan peraturan
Makan dan tidur secukupnya, dan hidup menyepi
Senantiasa berpikir luhur
Itulah ajaran para Buddha." (bukan ajaran Bodhisatta loh)

Maaf jika ada salah pengertian.... karena demikianlah yg saya maksud bhw Bodhisatta tidak akan mengajarkan Dhamma-nya sendiri, seperti seorang sammasambuddha
Tapi Bodhisatta memang bisa (tapi tidak harus/wajib) utk melakukan kegiatan mengajar Dhamma

Semoga pembedaan ini bisa dimengerti yah.........

metta  _/\_

Yup, setuju. Saya rasa penjelasan bro Markos cukup menghasilkan titik temu dalam paham Mahayana yg sering mencatat tentang kegiatan bodhisatva Maitreya mengajar dhamma di Tusita, tapi dalam hal ini  tentu saja bukan dhamma nya sendiri seperti yg bro jelaskan yg mana ini sudah merupakan pandangan umum dlm mahayana.  _/\_

dear chingik,

Bodhisatva mengajar dhamma bisa dilihat salah satunya di Sutra Delapan Kesadaran Agung:

Quote
Roda kelahiran dan kematian bagaikan nyala api yang membakar sebuah rumah. Terdapat penderitaan yang tak terhingga. Pertama-tama kita  harus berikrar untuk mengabdikan diri pada pengabdian kemanusiaan, kemudian menderita demi kepentingan mereka, dan akhirnya  mempersilahkan mereka mencapai Nirvana, kebahagiaan mutlak yang mulia.

Disini sebenarnya sudah disebut bhw Bodhisatva itu hanya menunjukkan jalan, tetapi pencapaian nirvana tetap harus diusahakan oleh diri sendiri sebagaimana dinyatakan dalam Sutra Mahaparinirvana Pacchimovada:

Quote
O, Para Bhikshu, berusahalah dengan giat dan bulatkan tekad untuk  mencapai pembebasan! Segala sesuatu yang berubah dan tidak berubah merupakan manifestasi bentuk fenomena dari kemayaan! Tenanglah kalian! Tak lama kemudian Aku akan sirna! Inilah pesan-pesan terakhir-Ku!

Tapi mengingat ini adalah thread theravada, sepertinya lebih baik jika tidak membandingkannya dengan mahayana yah karena jika lebih jauh, akan mengakibatkan perdebatan yg tidak selesai2 karena baik theravada maupun mahayana mempunyai pegangannya masing2.....

Daripada memperpanjang, marilah kita merenungkan bersama apa yg ada dalam Mahapadana sutta yaitu
Quote
"Kesabaran adalah tapa yang paling tinggi
Para Buddha bersabda: "Nibbana yang tertinggi dari segala sesuatu"
Beliau bukanlah pertapa yang merugikan orang lain atau pertapa yang tidak menyebabkan orang lain menjadi susah.

Tidak melakukan kejahatan/akusala,
Mengembangkan kebajikan/kusala,
Mensucikan batin.
Itulah ajaran para Buddha

Tidak memfitnah, tidak menganiaya
Mengendalikan diri sesuai dengan peraturan
Makan dan tidur secukupnya, dan hidup menyepi
Senantiasa berpikir luhur
Itulah ajaran para Buddha."

Jadi bagaimana kita bisa :
1. Sabar
2. Berusaha utk mencapai nibbana
3. Tidak merugikan atau menyusahkan orang lain
4. Kurangi berbuat akusala
5. Perbanyak berbuat kusala
6. Menyucikan batin
7. Tidak memfitnah
8. Tidak menganiaya
9. Mengendalikan diri sesuai dengan peraturan/sila
10. Makan dan tidur secukupnya
11. Hidup menyepi (menghindari objek2 duniawi)
12. Senantiasa berpikir luhur

Nah daripada mempertentangkan detail, bukankah lebih baik jika kita bisa mengikuti teladan buddha dalam 12 poin diatas?

semoga bermanfaat

metta  _/\_

Terima kasih atas masukannya. Semoga kita dapat mempraktikkannya dgn baik.  _/\_

Offline markosprawira

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #16 on: 20 January 2009, 12:53:36 PM »
 [at] chingik

yg saya tahu sih banyak kondisi :
- ga sempurna ngajarinnya (dari si subjeknya)
- batin penerima yg belum matang (objeknya)
- kondisi2 lain misal dalam kondisi perang, dsbnya dimana tidak mengkondisikan org utk belajar dhamma

maaf jika ada salah kata

metta

Offline chingik

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #17 on: 20 January 2009, 01:23:49 PM »
ya, tentu
yg sanggup mengajar dhamma dgn sempurna hanya seorang Sammasambuddha.
Seorang bodhisatta hanya mengajar dhamma yg bersifat mendorong dan memberi semangat kepada pendengarnya. Namun bukan berarti tidak bisa mengajar sama sekali.

Maaf juga jika ada kata yg salah. Mohon dikoreksi.  _/\_

Offline xenocross

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #18 on: 20 January 2009, 02:25:45 PM »
nggak, coba baca kisah2 jataka

Bodhisatta ngajar dharma kok. Walaupun dharma dalam level beginner seperti 5 sila atau karma. Tapi pada waktu itu sudah hebat karena ajaran itu tidak dikenal sebelumnya

Contoh: Maha Umagga Jataka
Sutasoma Jataka

dan lain lain.

Jadi kalau Maitreya ngajar dikit2 bisa juga toh? Walaupun belum sempurna. Ketidaksempurnaan ini mungkin bisa dibandingkan dalam vimalakirti-nirdesa sutra (sutra mahayana)

http://www.purifymind.com/Vimalakirti3.htm

The Reluctance of the Bodhisattvas

Then, the Buddha said to the bodhisattva Maitreya, "Maitreya, go to the Licchavi Vimalakirti to inquire about his illness."

Maitreya replied, "Lord, I am indeed reluctant to go to that good man to inquire about his illness. Why? Lord, I remember that one day I was engaged in a conversation with the gods of the Tusita heaven, the god Samtusita and his retinue, about the stage of nonregression of the great bodhisattvas. At that time, the Licchavi Vimalakirti came there and addressed me as follows:

"'Maitreya, the Buddha has prophesied that only one more birth stands between you and unexcelled, perfect enlightenment. What kind of birth does this prophecy concern, Maitreya? Is it past? Is it future? Or is it present? If it is a past birth, it is already finished. If it is a future birth, it will never arrive. If it is a present birth, it does not abide. For the Buddha has declared, "Bhikshus, in a single moment, you are born, you age, you die, you transmigrate, and you are reborn."

"'Then might the prophecy concern birthlessness? But birthlessness applies to the stage of destiny for the ultimate, in which there is neither prophecy nor attainment of perfect enlightenment.

"'Therefore, Maitreya, is your reality from birth? Or is it from cessation? Your reality as prophesied is not born and does not cease, nor will it be born nor will it cease. Furthermore, your reality is just the same as the reality of all living beings, the reality of all things, and the reality of all the holy ones. If your enlightenment can be prophesied in such a way, so can that of all living beings. Why? Because reality does not consist of duality or of diversity. Maitreya, whenever you attain Buddhahood, which is the perfection of enlightenment, at the same time all living beings will also attain ultimate liberation. Why? The Tathagatas do not enter ultimate liberation until all living beings have entered ultimate liberation. For, since all living beings are utterly liberated, the Tathagatas see them as having the nature of ultimate liberation.

"'Therefore, Maitreya, do not fool and delude these deities! No one abides in, or regresses from, enlightenment. Maitreya, you should introduce these deities to the repudiation of all discriminative constructions concerning enlightenment.

"'Enlightenment is perfectly realized neither by the body nor by the mind. Enlightenment is the eradication of all marks. Enlightenment is free of presumptions concerning all objects. Enlightenment is free of the functioning of all intentional thoughts. Enlightenment is the annihilation of all convictions. Enlightenment is free from all discriminative constructions. Enlightenment is free from all vacillation, mentation, and agitation. Enlightenment is not involved in any commitments. Enlightenment is the arrival at detachment, through freedom from all habitual attitudes. The ground of enlightenment is the ultimate realm. Enlightenment is realization of reality. Enlightenment abides at the limit of reality.

Enlightenment is without duality, since therein are no minds and no things. Enlightenment is equality, since it is equal to infinite space.

"'Enlightenment is unconstructed, because it is neither born nor destroyed, neither abides nor undergoes any transformation. Enlightenment is the complete knowledge of the thoughts, deeds, and inclinations of all living beings. Enlightenment is not a door for the six media of sense. Enlightenment is unadulterated, since it is free of the passions of the instinctually driven succession of

lives. Enlightenment is neither somewhere nor nowhere, abiding in no location or dimension. Enlightenment, not being contained in anything, does not stand in reality. Enlightenment is merely a name and even that name is unmoving. Enlightenment, free of abstention and undertaking, is energyless. There is no agitation in enlightenment, as it is utterly pure by nature. Enlightenment is radiance, pure in essence. Enlightenment is without subjectivity and completely without object. Enlightenment, which penetrates the equality of all things, is undifferentiated. Enlightenment, which is not shown by any example, is incomparable. Enlightenment is subtle, since it is extremely difficult to realize. Enlightenment is all-pervasive, as it has the nature of infinite space. Enlightenment cannot be realized, either physically or mentally. Why? The body is like grass, trees, walls, paths, and hallucinations. And the mind is immaterial, invisible, baseless, and unconscious.'

"Lord, when Vimalakirti had discoursed thus, two hundred of the deities in that assembly attained the tolerance of birthlessness. As for me, Lord, I was rendered speechless. Therefore, I am reluctant to go to that good man to inquire about his illness."
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline chingik

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #19 on: 20 January 2009, 02:33:33 PM »
[at] xenocross
dalam konteks mahayana ya memang sudah wajar Maitreya mengajar dharma. Di Sutra banyak kok.
Yg skrg kita bahas adalah apakah ada dalam referensi dari Theravada? Karena dari rekan2 Theravada sering mengatakan Metteya blm menjadi Buddha jadi tidak mengajarkan dharma. 

Offline xenocross

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #20 on: 20 January 2009, 03:01:02 PM »
Greater Sutasoma Jataka. no 537

Many years ago in the country that we now call India, the Bodhisatta was born into the royal family of the Kauravas. Because of His unusually handsome face the prince was named Sutasoma, which meant “as beautiful as the moon-god Soma”. Prince Sutasoma was extremely fond of learning and was renowned for His practice of religion. Before long He outshone His father in wisdom and virtue, whereupon the king transferred half of the kingdom to his son and made Him heir-apparent. The kingdom was well-governed by the father and son and the people lived in happiness and contentment.

It was a beautiful day in the month of May. The flowers were in bloom, adorning the trees in brilliant hues. Their fragrance and the merrymaking of the Princesses attracted the Prince who stepped out of the palace into the royal-garden. There, resting beneath a shade-giving tree, He enjoyed the tranquillity and serenity of the garden. A Brahmin, having heard of the Prince’s love of religious learning, approached Him and asked His permission to recite some stanzas which he felt the Prince would enjoy. With pleasure, the Prince invited the Brahmin to take a seat beside Him.

Before the Brahmin could speak the peace of the afternoon was shattered. Frightened guards rushed in to announce that Kamashapada the man-eater was storming through the city in search of one hundred princes. Kamashapada, who was the king of a small kingdom, had once had the misfortune of tasting human flesh. He so enjoyed the taste that he continued to indulge his craving by killing and eating his subjects. The enraged subjects banded together and vowed to destroy the king. The king ran into the forest and asked for the protection of the Rakshas, a man-eating tribe, in exchange for one hundred princes. Kamashapaga was now on a rampage, seeking the princes in order to keep is part of the pact.

The Bodhsatta realized that weapons could not subdue a man who had degraded himself so low as to kill his own subjects to satisfy his craving for human flesh. Instead, He decided to give Himself up and try to subdue Kamashapada through virtue. Prince Sutasoma walked calmly towards the man-eater and said, “Here I am. Take me and leave my poor subjects unharmed.” Seeing the Prince unarmed and on His own, Kamashapada grabbed Him, and throwing him over his shoulder, carried Him away into the forest.

Kamashapada set down the Bodhisatta in his stronghold amidst the carnage of dead bodies and broken skulls. The place reeked of death. Kamashapada sat back wondering at the beauty and gentleness of Prince Sutasoma.

The Prince at this time was reflecting in sorrow at the missed opportunity of learning as the disaster had struck just a the Brahmin was about to share his wisdom with Him. On hearing the Prince sigh, Kamashapada laughed and asked if He was grieving the loss of His kingdom, wealth, or family. The Bodhisatta then informed him that He grieved not for wealth or family but for the lost opportunity of learning. He then asked permission to go back and hear the words of the Brahmin, promising that He would come back unarmed to Kamashapada’s stronghold.

Kamashapada laughed and said, “And what motive would you have for coming back? If I release you, I will lose you.” The Bodhisatta, however, insisted that He would come back by saying, “The motive is my word, my promise that I hold sacred. I will not break my promise to you.” The man-eater’s curiousity was now aroused. He had already captured one hundred princes and could keep the pact even if he lost this Prince. He agreed and set the Bodhisatta free.

Versi kakawin borobudur:
"Setelah membayar hutangku kepada brahmana itu aku akan kembali lagi, membawa kegembiraan pada matamu dan membayar hutangku padamu. Jangan menganggap bahwa hal ini merupakan muslihat untuk melarikan diri darimu, Oh Raja. Orang sepertiku tak mempunyai rasa takut. Aku menganut jalan yang berbeda dari yang sebagian besar orang tempuh."

Ucapan Bodhisattva menjengkelkan Purusadha yang menganggapnya sekedar berbasa-basi. Hingga akhirnya ia berpikir, "Jelas sekali ia membualkan kejujuran dan kebenarannya. Baiklah bila demikian, aku akan melihat kecintaannya terhadap kebenaran dan kebajikan!"

Kepada Bodhisattva ia lalu berkata: "Baiklah kalau begitu pergilah. Kita lihat kejujuranmu yang teguh dalam perbuatan, kita lihat bagaimana engkau menepati janjimu. Kita lihat kekuatan kebenaranmu. Setelah melakukan apa yang kau inginkan kepada brahmana, kembalilah segera! Sementara aku akan menyiapkan tungku pembakaranmu."


The people of the kingdom broke into joyous celebration when they saw the Prince walking back safe and unharmed. He sent for the Brahmin, and after listening to his wisdom prepared to go back to the stronghold of Kamashapada. The king was horrified and refused to let Him leave, but the Prince was adamant. The king then gathered the army and requested that they accompany the Prince into the forest. But the Prince refused the escort, saying, “I gave him my word, I must go alone and unarmed.” Amidst the tears and pleading of His family and subjects, the Prince returned to the stronghold of the man-eater.

When Kamashapada saw the Prince walking towards him unarmed and alone he was surprised and amazed. His curiousity aroused, he said, “I am in no rush to kill you. The funeral pyre still burns. Human flesh tastes best when roasted on glowing embers. So tell me, what was it that was so important that you learned from the Brahmin?”

The Prince then asked him what use the wisdom of virtue to be to one who believed only in evil. The enraged man-eater then ridiculed the Prince for His lack of political wisdom in coming back by saying that only a fool would come back after having been given His freedom. The Prince, however, countered the comments by saying that even more important than political wisdom is righteousness. “I gave you my word. It is more important that I keep my word than that I keep my kingdom.”

The subdued and humbled Kamashapada then sat down beside the Bodhisatta and begged Him to teach him the wisdom He had gained. The Bodhisatta agreed to teach him, saying, “It was through your release that I had the happiness of hearing this wisdom. Now share in my happiness.” He then repeated the words of the Brahmin:

“Meet but once a virtuous man
It will suffice to form a lasting friendship,
Depending not on further meetings.
From the virtuous keep not thyself remote,
But to follow and honour them, thyself devote.
He who approaches them cannot fail to become like them.
Such persons are like flower dust
Giving forth unknowningly the sweet perfume of noble words and deeds.
The ears of kings with jewels and gold
Lose with the jewels their beauty, growing old!
So strong a love of virtue pious men possess
That never does it fade but lives on to bless…”


Upon hearing these words the heart of the man-eater was suffused with happiness and he offered the Prince four boons. The Bodhisatta then asked for the following boons:

Take the vow of Truth.
Cease from injuring living beings.
Free all your prisoners.
Never again partake in human flesh.


Whereupon Kamashapada said, “You can have the first three, but the fourth I cannot give. I cannot give up the taste of human flesh. How can I give up the taste for which I gave up my kingdom?” The Bodhisatta then explained that in not keeping the fourth he had not kept the others either. For after promising a boon he now refused to keep his promise, which in itself was not truth.

With the help of the Bodhisatta, Kamashapada became a changed man. He freed the hundred princes and lived under the good influence of Prince Sutasoma for a while, after which he went back and reigned in his own kingdom. In keeping His promise to come back, the Bodhisatta completed the virtue of Truth. This is what He said with joy, on completing the virtue of Truth:

“I kept the promise I had made,
and gave my life in sacrifice.
A hundred warriors set I free.
In Truth have I, perfection reached.”

It must be said that the virtue of Truth is the highest of the ten virtues for it is the one virtue that a Bodhisatta keeps throughout the Kaya-panidhana kala. During this period it is possible for a Bodhisatta to err, as He is still a worldling and subject to wrongdoing; He does not, however, break the precept of Truth. The Seeker of Truth, a Buddha Aspirant, keeps the precept of Truth throughout the entire period, making Truth the most important of the ten virtues.
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline xenocross

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #21 on: 20 January 2009, 03:09:54 PM »
Sattubhatta Jataka.

Many years ago the Bodhisatta was born as a very wise sage by the name of Pandit Senaka. The king appointed Him a minister and before long He was well known for His wisdom and fairness when dealing with problems and conflicts among his majesty’s subjects. His fame spread across the city so that persons with problems came to Him from all over the country in search of a fair and equitable solution.

In this City there lived an old Brahmin who had a very beautiful young wife. Unknown to the Brahmin she had many lovers and often entertained her men friends in his absence. One day the young woman requested that they husband seek employment so that he could earn some gold to provide them with servants and some savings for their future. Then, packing some delicacies that kept well on a journey, she sent her husband away.

The old Brahmin worked hard and earned sufficient gold to provide then with two servants and savings for their future. Then, remembering the food that his wife had packed, he stopped by the wayside to eat the delicacies she had made. Unknown to him, a poisonous snake crept into the open bag of food, attracted by the sweet smell. The man having eaten his fill, closed the bag and continued on his journey home without realising that there was a snake in the bag with the leftover food.

A tree Deva, on seeing the danger to the man, made himself visible to the Brahmin and exclaimed, “If you go home your wife will die; if you stop by the wayside again, you will die.” The old Brahmin was perplexed and worried. Unable to understand the meaning of the words of the Deva he fretting in anguish. Walking thus he was attracted by a large gathering who had come to visit the Pandit Senaka to ask Him questions. The Brahmin too approached the pandit, and after telling his story, asked Him to explain the words of the Deva.

After pondering over the words for some time the Pandit Senaka asked the Brahmin to untie carefully the string tied around the bag of food. He told the Brahmin that he suspected there was a poisonous snake in the bag. He then explained the words of the Deva by saying that if the Brahmin had gone home, his wife would have died, as, unaware of the snake, she would have put her hand into the bag to take out the leftover food, and that if he had stopped on the way to rest again, he would have died, as he would have put his hand into the bag to have some food. As instructed, the old man carefully opened the bag. A small but poisonous snake slithered out into the bushes.

The old man was overwhelmed with gratitude for the Pandit who he felt had saved his life. He offered the 700 gold coins that he had earned as a gift to the Pandit. The Pandit Senaka, surprised at seeing so much money on a travel-weary old man, asked him how he happened to have so much money with him and to relay the full story of the past few days.

Feeling compassion for the hardworking old man, the Pandit refused the gift and gave him 300 gold coins so that he would have a thousand gold coins for his and his wife’s future. But, suspecting the young woman of treachery, He requested that the Brahmin not inform his wife of his savings.

The old Brahmin who trusted and loved his wife, did not heed the advice of the Pandit. The provided his wife with the servants she had requested and buried all his treasures in the premises of their garden in her presence.

A few days later, he was horrified to find that all his gold was missing. Distraught, he visited the wise Pandit Senaka in the hope of finding a solution to his problem. The Bodhisatta listened to the case, and suspecting the young woman of treachery, instructed the old Brahmin to entertain fourteen guests for seven days. Seven of the guests were to be chosen by his wife and seven were to be chosen by himself. Each succeeding day, one of the guests selected by each of them were to be dropped so that one the seventh day there would only be two guests present, one of whom was selected by his wife and the other by himself. He then requested that the Brahmin come back and inform Him of the identity of his wife’s last guest.

The Brahmin followed the instructions of the Sage and identified his wife’s last guest – the one whom she had chosen to entertain for the full seven days. The Bodhisatta then sent His men to search the house of the wife’s last guest and found the gold that had been stolen.

Upon being caught with the gold the man acknowledged the crime and his relationship to the young woman. The Bodhisatta then questioned the Brahmin if he wished to forgive his wife and remain with her. After being informed that he stilled loved her and wanted to remain with her, the Bodhisatta adviced the young woman of the danger and folly of her behaviour and the consequences of sexual misconduct. On hearing the wisdom of the Bodhisatta, the young woman agreed to mend her ways. The Brahmin and his wife went home reconciled.

The Bodhisatta had practiced the virtue of wisdom in many, many births. The Ummaga Jataka illustrates many of the problems that he solved in His quest for wisdom. In solving this problem the Bodhisatta completed the virtue of wisdom. In happiness He exclaimed:

“With wisdom sifted I the case
And freed the Brahmin from his woes
In wisdom none can equal me
In wisdom I’ve perfection reached.”
Satu saat dari pikiran yang dikuasai amarah membakar kebaikan yang telah dikumpulkan selama berkalpa-kalpa.
~ Mahavairocana Sutra

Offline markosprawira

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #22 on: 21 January 2009, 09:54:48 AM »
[at] xenocross
dalam konteks mahayana ya memang sudah wajar Maitreya mengajar dharma. Di Sutra banyak kok.
Yg skrg kita bahas adalah apakah ada dalam referensi dari Theravada? Karena dari rekan2 Theravada sering mengatakan Metteya blm menjadi Buddha jadi tidak mengajarkan dharma. 

dear chingik,

Tidak mengajarkan Dhamma yg ditemukannya sendiri, yg menunjukkan jalan ke pembebasan dari dukkha....

Dalam bnyk kehidupan, Bodhisatta sendiri lahir sebagai mahluk yg bijaksana dan selalu berusaha utk berbuat baik.......

Jadi kiranya sekarang sudah jelas yah.......

mett

Offline ika_polim

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #23 on: 11 February 2009, 11:10:40 AM »
Dalam tradisi Theravada sering mendengar bhw Bodhisatta saat terlahir di surga Tusita masih belum sanggup mengajarkan dhamma (Alasannnya karena Bodhisatta tersebut belum menjadi Buddha). Apakah ada referensi dari pernyataan tsb? Kalau ada mohon dishare  _/\_ 

btw, apakah kata "dhamma" menurut hemat anda HARUS dan HANYA mengacu kpd "hal teknis akademis" saja?

ika.

Offline dilbert

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #24 on: 11 February 2009, 01:27:30 PM »
hanya seorang sammasambuddha-lah yang bisa mengajarkan jalan pembebasan (arahanta magga)...

hanya bisa mengajarkan 5 sila atau 10 sila belum-lah dikatakan mengajarkan jalan pembebasan. belum lengkap...
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Offline ika_polim

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #25 on: 11 February 2009, 04:57:44 PM »
Dalam tradisi Theravada sering mendengar bhw Bodhisatta saat terlahir di surga Tusita masih belum sanggup mengajarkan dhamma (Alasannnya karena Bodhisatta tersebut belum menjadi Buddha). Apakah ada referensi dari pernyataan tsb? Kalau ada mohon dishare  _/\_ 

btw, apakah kata "dhamma" menurut hemat anda HARUS dan HANYA mengacu kpd "hal teknis akademis" saja?

ika.

hanya seorang sammasambuddha-lah yang bisa mengajarkan jalan pembebasan (arahanta magga)...

hanya bisa mengajarkan 5 sila atau 10 sila belum-lah dikatakan mengajarkan jalan pembebasan. belum lengkap...

silakan pahami kisah MahaKassyapa sehubungan dgn Buddha yang "diam tidak berbicara", namun menunjukan "sekuntum bunga" dan MahaKassyapa "tersenyum-paham-cerah".

ika. 

Offline Indra

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #26 on: 11 February 2009, 05:02:42 PM »
silakan pahami kisah MahaKassyapa sehubungan dgn Buddha yang "diam tidak berbicara", namun menunjukan "sekuntum bunga" dan MahaKassyapa "tersenyum-paham-cerah".

ika. 

Dan bagaimanakah pemahaman Bung Ika, kalau boleh tau?

Offline dilbert

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #27 on: 11 February 2009, 06:42:23 PM »
Dalam tradisi Theravada sering mendengar bhw Bodhisatta saat terlahir di surga Tusita masih belum sanggup mengajarkan dhamma (Alasannnya karena Bodhisatta tersebut belum menjadi Buddha). Apakah ada referensi dari pernyataan tsb? Kalau ada mohon dishare  _/\_ 

btw, apakah kata "dhamma" menurut hemat anda HARUS dan HANYA mengacu kpd "hal teknis akademis" saja?

ika.

hanya seorang sammasambuddha-lah yang bisa mengajarkan jalan pembebasan (arahanta magga)...

hanya bisa mengajarkan 5 sila atau 10 sila belum-lah dikatakan mengajarkan jalan pembebasan. belum lengkap...

silakan pahami kisah MahaKassyapa sehubungan dgn Buddha yang "diam tidak berbicara", namun menunjukan "sekuntum bunga" dan MahaKassyapa "tersenyum-paham-cerah".

ika. 

lha... kan tuh "ilmu"-nya BUDDHA... dan hanya MahaKassapa mengerti (MENURUT CERITA)...
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

Offline marcedes

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #28 on: 11 February 2009, 11:34:21 PM »
seorang yang belum mencapai nibbana tetapi mengajarkan hal tentang mencapai nibbana....apakah hal itu pantas?

saya lupa sutta mana yang membahas hal ini, karena masalah meditasi MMD..
tetapi tidak mungkin Boddhisatva metteya mengajarkan dhamma yang sehubung dengan pembebasan sedangkan dirinya belum bebas dan belum menyelami nibbana itu seperti apa.

berbeda dengan paham mahayana..dimana seseorang mencapai nibbana tetapi belum juga lenyap dari aspek kelahiran..

jadi paham nibbana dan paham nirvana itu berbeda antara Theravada dan Mahayana.
sekiranya pikiran kita tidak terjaring disini....mengerti ke-dua konsep yang jelas berbeda. tidaklah mungkin memaksakan sama.

lebih baik seperti [at] markos katakan.....urusan batin dulu lebih penting.
Ada penderitaan,tetapi tidak ada yang menderita
Ada jalan tetapi tidak ada yang menempuhnya
Ada Nibbana tetapi tidak ada yang mencapainya.

TALK LESS DO MOREEEEEE !!!

Offline HokBen

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Re: Dewa Bodhisatta di Tusita Tidak Mengajarkan dhamma?
« Reply #29 on: 12 February 2009, 02:21:22 PM »
seorang yang belum mencapai nibbana tetapi mengajarkan hal tentang mencapai nibbana....apakah hal itu pantas?

berarti Bhante yang ceramah Dhamma apa itu disebut tidak pantas? Bisa jadi Bhante ybs belum mencappai Nibanna, trus berceramah tentang 4 Kebenaran Mulia...

mungkin yang tidak pantas adalah mengajarkan tentang pencapaian Nibanna sedangkan si pengajarpun sehari-harinya melakukan pelanggaran sila dengan sengaja.... misal, penceramah tapi saban hari kerjaannya selingkuh sama istri orang, make drugs, dll...

 

anything