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Offline sobat-dharma

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Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« on: 13 May 2011, 03:50:45 PM »
The Suttas of the Pali Canon number over 10,000 and contain a huge variety of material. They vary in numerous ways: length, topics, style, tone, and even plausibility. So how should someone approach the huge body of literature, especially from the viewpoint of one engaged in critical thinking?

The first thing to notice is that the collection in the Pali Canon is not the only collection of early suttas existent - the Chinese Agamas contain much the same material, although it is organized differently. And we have fragments of the sutta collections from other early Indian Buddhist schools besides the Theravadan - and again there is a consistency here. So it would seem that indeed we have an authentic record of the early teachings of Buddhism.

But how early? One hint can be gleaned from the dating of the Abhidhamma - set by scholars at about 200 years after the Buddha's death. From that time on, the suttas seem to have not really changed - the effort of creating new material seems to have gone into the creation of the Abhidhammas of the various schools that were emerging.

Given the huge variety in these suttas, how literally should we take this material? Is it all really the words of the Buddha and his close disciples? Well, unless you are willing to believe, for example as found in MN 123, that the newly born baby Buddha-to-be took seven steps to the north and exclaimed in a loud voice "I'm the chief in this world, the most accepted and the most senior. This is my last birth, I will not be born again”, you are going to have to let go of literalism. You will need to use your critical thinking ability to decide what is authentic, what is mythology, and even what was a later creation to serve some sectarian purpose.

Scholars have done various studies on the language used in the suttas and from this have begin to identify various strata - just like we can distinguish 19th century English from 21st century English. Clearly not all of the suttas reached the form in which we know them at the same time.

Scholars have also studied the doctrines & practices given and once again can identify various strata. Here, however, dating is a bit more difficult - are these from widely divergent time periods or was the Buddha simply refining his teaching techniques over his lifetime? If you are interested in looking deeper into the scholarly stratification of the suttas, a useful starting place is G. C. Pande, Studies in the Origins of Buddhism, Delhi 1957 & 1983. It contains interesting and controversial information in a somewhat disorganized, but nonetheless useful presentation.

Now by "authentic" I don't mean to imply that we necessarily have the Buddha's exact words - on anything. I do mean that the suttas present stratified layers of material, some of which is certainly NOT from the era of the historical Buddha. It is possible to distinguish what is "authentic" in the sense of being from the early layers and possibly represent teaching of the historical Buddha, from what is clearly a later layer that clearly cannot make any claim of being the teachings of the historical Buddha.

Below I include discussions of some suttas to begin to give you hints as to how to proceed on your own to decide what is authentic and what is a later fabrication. But the long and the short of sutta study is simply this:

Read lots of suttas looking for practices the Buddha repeatedly says you should do - and then go do them. Don't worry too much about the stories, contradictions, mythology, etc. Remember the Buddha was only concerned about showing the way to end dukkha - find his instructions concerning this and follow them.

DN 16 - The Mahaparinibbana Sutta - The Buddha's Last Days
This suttas is clearly a composite - material from many sources has been gathered together here. Some of this material is quite dubious (e.g. Ananda failing to ask the Buddha to live for an eon) and some has the ring of authenticity (e.g. the Buddha's last words). G. C. Pande (above) has quite a bit on the stratification in this composite sutta.

DN 24, MN 12 & MN105
DN 24 is possibly the worst composed sutta in the whole Pali canon. It is internally self contradictory and just plain badly crafted. It seems to have been composed to show Sunakkhatta, a former monk, in a very bad light. Why? It seems that after he disrobed, Sunakkhatta went around denouncing the Buddha and his teachings, saying he taught an invalid spiritual path. This denouncement is found at the beginning of MN 12 which then goes on at great length listing all the Buddha's amazing qualities in a way that is clearly composed of material from other sources. However MN 105, which was given to Sunakkhatta before he bacme a monk, has much more of a ring of authenticity.

DN 14, DN 17, DN 18, DN 19, DN 20, DN 21, MN 37, MN 49, MN 50, MN 81, MN 83, MN 123
All of these are clearly mythological.

DN 27, MN 84, MN 93, MN 96
All of these are busy refuting the brahmins' claim to be the highest caste.

DN 30 - The Lakkhana Sutta - The Marks of a Great Man
This discusses the 32 marks of a great man - which supposedly the Buddha had. But anyone with these physical characteristics would be simply bizarre looking, not handsome as the Buddha is often purported to be. For example, two of the marks are that a great man's arm span is equal to his height and that a great man can scratch his knees without having to bend over. That's going to result in someone with really short legs! The 32 marks seem to be a bramaminical teaching that was subsumed by the Buddhist to prove the Buddha was a "great man."

DN 32 & DN 33, MN 43 & MN 44
These suttas are lists of items with very much an abhidhamma flavor. DN 32, in the section of the Fours, seems to be the only place in the suttas where "the four immaterial states" are referred to as "the four immaterial jhanas". Clearly this is later material.

MN 74 & MN 111
How many times can someone become fully enlightened? Well, there are two Very different stories of Sariputta's full enlightenment! MN 111 certainly has a much more abhidhammic flavor and is one of only 3 suttas where the first jhana is said to have one-pointedness as a factor - actually MN 111 indicates that the first jhana has 4 factors, then shortly thereafter indicates it has many more factors, including one-pointedness.

Samyutta Nikaya
You can find an incredible amount of diversity in the Samyutta Nikaya - including a wealth of very useful teachings. There are also conversations with devas and Mara. These could be taken literally, but perhaps a better way to look at them is thoughts from the unconscious/subconscious.

Anguttara Nikaya
Although there are some very useful teachings in this numerical collection, on the whole it is less interesting than the DN, MN or SN. A large number of suttas seem to be aimed at organizing and controlling the monastic sangha. There are 11 chapters and the higher the number, the less reliable the suttas seem. From chapter 6 onward, the lists are frequently a combination of two shorter lists. Chapter 11 seems very suspect since it is far shorter than any of the other chapters as well as having lists that present almost nothing original. AN 8.51 - the story of the founding of the nuns order - is especially suspect -- more info on this sutta here.

Khuddaka Nikaya
The diversity in this collection is mind boggling - it contains some of the earliest strata and some of the latest strata found in the suttas. The verses of the Udana seem to mostly be quite early; the corresponding stories at times seem to have almost no connection to the verses. The Sutta Nipata is generally regarded as mostly a very early collection. The Patisambhidamagga is an obviously late analysis of Abhidhamma concepts. You find a number of collections of past lives of the Buddha and of previous Buddhas. Quite a mixed bag here.

In general, underlying this mass of literary works, there are consistent themes that start in the earliest layers and probably do go back to the historical Buddha - tho not necessarily in the currently preserved words, of course. Among the themes that do seem to go far back are This-That conditionality (more elaborately formulated as Dependent Origination), The Graduated Training (as found in DN 2 and Many other suttas), Anapanasati (tho MN 118 may a later composition from earlier materials) and the practice of the Brahma Viharas (as found in DN 13 and other suttas).

Source: Leigh Brasington
http://www.leighb.com/palisuttas.htm
Mereka yang melihat-Ku dari wujud dan mengikuti-Ku dari suara terlibat dalam upaya salah. Mereka takkan melihat Aku. Dari Dharma-lah mestinya ia melihat Para Buddha. Dari Dharmakaya datang tuntunan baginya. Namun hakikat sejati Dharma tak terlihat dan tiada seorangpun bisa menyadarinya sebagai obyek

Offline Indra

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #1 on: 13 May 2011, 05:08:31 PM »

Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #2 on: 13 May 2011, 07:39:40 PM »
Sebenarnya gampang, cari aja di agama ada atau nggak.
HANYA MENERIMA UCAPAN TERIMA KASIH DALAM BENTUK GRP
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Offline icykalimu

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #3 on: 14 May 2011, 12:02:25 AM »
Sebenarnya gampang, cari aja di agama ada atau nggak.

apa maksudnya cari di agama?
...

Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #4 on: 14 May 2011, 09:06:27 AM »
bagian dari tripitaka mahayana, sebelum ditambah atau dikurangi.
HANYA MENERIMA UCAPAN TERIMA KASIH DALAM BENTUK GRP
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Offline Indra

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #5 on: 14 May 2011, 09:13:57 AM »
konon katanya sutra-sutra Agama itu identik dengan Nikaya2 Pali, jika sutta2 di atas di anggap tidak otentik, berarti agama sutra juga tidk otentik. kecuali tiba2 sekarang keluar pernyataan bahwa Agama sutra tidak sama dengan Nikaya2 Pali.

ini kan seperti meniup debu melawan arah angin.

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #6 on: 14 May 2011, 05:32:49 PM »
^^
kebiasaan tidak konsisten hasilnya begitu pulak
Seringlah PancaKhanda direnungkan sebagai Ini Bukan MILIKKU, Ini Bukan AKU, Ini Bukan DIRIKU, bermanfaat mengurangi keSERAKAHan, mengurangi keSOMBONGan, Semoga dapat menjauhi Pandangan SALAH.

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #7 on: 14 May 2011, 08:10:54 PM »
Sebenarnya gampang, cari aja di agama ada atau nggak.

brahmajala sutta (Pali Kanon) dan brahmajala sutra (Sanskrit) isi-nya tidak sama.

brahmajala sutta (pali) berisi tentang 62 pandangan salah
brahmajala sutra (sanskrit) berisi tentang kisah Vairocana Buddha (salah satu dhyani buddha Mahayana)
VAYADHAMMA SANKHARA APPAMADENA SAMPADETHA
Semua yang berkondisi tdak kekal adanya, berjuanglah dengan penuh kewaspadaan

Offline sobat-dharma

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #8 on: 14 May 2011, 08:40:33 PM »
Daripada ribut soal asli atau palsu sutta2 (ataupun sutra2), pesan dari penulis artikel ini, yaitu Leight Brasington, pantas diperhatikan:

"Read lots of suttas looking for practices the Buddha repeatedly says you should do - and then go do them. Don't worry too much about the stories, contradictions, mythology, etc. Remember the Buddha was only concerned about showing the way to end dukkha - find his instructions concerning this and follow them."

Saya melihat sikap ini dari penulis sangat jujur, berani mengakui bahwa sebagian kitab suci yang dijadikannya sebagai landasan praktik dirinya pribadi, mungkin saja "tidak otentik" alias "palsu". Meski demikian, sepalsu-palsunya sebuah sutta, isi dan pesan yang termaktub di dalamnya tidak selalu langsung dapat dianggap sebagai sesat. Sebagai praktisi, kita perlu langsung melihat pada petunjuk dalam setiap sutta  kemudiannya meggunakannya sebagai tuntunan bagi praktik kita, bukan langsung merendah-rendahkan atau mengabaikan isinya sama sekali.

Oleh karena itu, dalam mendiskusikan mengenai palsu atau tidaknya suatu sutta, hindarilah semangat kolektor barang antik:  mengkoleksi barang asli dan membuang barang palsu semata-mata dilihat dari nilai harganya di pasar, bukan kegunaan riilnya. Meskipun sebuah sutta diragukan keotentikkannya, sebaiknya perhatikan isi pesannya secara keseluruhan. Jika di dalam sutta tersebut banyak mengandung petunjuk yang berguna dalam praktik, sebaiknya sutta tersebut tetap layak untuk  dipertahankan untuk dijadikan petunjuk.   
« Last Edit: 14 May 2011, 08:55:02 PM by sobat-dharma »
Mereka yang melihat-Ku dari wujud dan mengikuti-Ku dari suara terlibat dalam upaya salah. Mereka takkan melihat Aku. Dari Dharma-lah mestinya ia melihat Para Buddha. Dari Dharmakaya datang tuntunan baginya. Namun hakikat sejati Dharma tak terlihat dan tiada seorangpun bisa menyadarinya sebagai obyek

Offline Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #9 on: 14 May 2011, 08:42:51 PM »
Saya hanya membahas sesuai judul.
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Offline sobat-dharma

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #10 on: 14 May 2011, 08:46:20 PM »
konon katanya sutra-sutra Agama itu identik dengan Nikaya2 Pali, jika sutta2 di atas di anggap tidak otentik, berarti agama sutra juga tidk otentik. kecuali tiba2 sekarang keluar pernyataan bahwa Agama sutra tidak sama dengan Nikaya2 Pali.

ini kan seperti meniup debu melawan arah angin.

Anggap saja sebagai cara Mahayanis melakukan kritik-diri. Semakin kita mampu melakukan kritik-diri, semakin dewasa cara kita berpikir :)
Mereka yang melihat-Ku dari wujud dan mengikuti-Ku dari suara terlibat dalam upaya salah. Mereka takkan melihat Aku. Dari Dharma-lah mestinya ia melihat Para Buddha. Dari Dharmakaya datang tuntunan baginya. Namun hakikat sejati Dharma tak terlihat dan tiada seorangpun bisa menyadarinya sebagai obyek

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #11 on: 14 May 2011, 09:25:44 PM »
Daripada ribut soal asli atau palsu sutta2 (ataupun sutra2), pesan dari penulis artikel ini, yaitu Leight Brasington, pantas diperhatikan:

"Read lots of suttas looking for practices the Buddha repeatedly says you should do - and then go do them. Don't worry too much about the stories, contradictions, mythology, etc. Remember the Buddha was only concerned about showing the way to end dukkha - find his instructions concerning this and follow them."

Saya melihat sikap ini dari penulis sangat jujur, berani mengakui bahwa sebagian kitab suci yang dijadikannya sebagai landasan praktik dirinya pribadi, mungkin saja "tidak otentik" alias "palsu". Meski demikian, sepalsu-palsunya sebuah sutta, isi dan pesan yang termaktub di dalamnya tidak selalu langsung dapat dianggap sebagai sesat. Sebagai praktisi, kita perlu langsung melihat pada petunjuk dalam setiap sutta  kemudiannya meggunakannya sebagai tuntunan bagi praktik kita, bukan langsung merendah-rendahkan atau mengabaikan isinya sama sekali.

Oleh karena itu, dalam mendiskusikan mengenai palsu atau tidaknya suatu sutta, hindarilah semangat kolektor barang antik:  mengkoleksi barang asli dan membuang barang palsu semata-mata dilihat dari nilai harganya di pasar, bukan kegunaan riilnya. Meskipun sebuah sutta diragukan keotentikkannya, sebaiknya perhatikan isi pesannya secara keseluruhan. Jika di dalam sutta tersebut banyak mengandung petunjuk yang berguna dalam praktik, sebaiknya sutta tersebut tetap layak untuk  dipertahankan untuk dijadikan petunjuk.   
kalau tidak bermanfaat bagaimana? kalau sutta itu menipu bagaimana?
apakah sbuah ajaran yang didasari penipuan akan bermanfaat?
Janganlah memperhatikan kesalahan dan hal-hal yang telah atau belum dikerjakan oleh diri sendiri. Tetapi, perhatikanlah apa yang telah dikerjakan dan apa yang belum dikerjakan oleh orang lain =))

Offline sobat-dharma

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #12 on: 15 May 2011, 11:34:51 AM »
kalau tidak bermanfaat bagaimana? kalau sutta itu menipu bagaimana?
apakah sbuah ajaran yang didasari penipuan akan bermanfaat?

Kumpulan Tipitaka Pali misalnya, meski seperti yang diungkap dalam artikel di atas sebagian diragukan otensitasnya, namun secara keseluruhan telah berjasa selama ribuan tahun memberi petunjuk bagi para Thera di Sri Lanka untuk mencapai kearahatan. Terlepas dari kenyataan bahwa ada yang palsu atau asli dalam kumpulan sutta tersebut, kumpulan sutta tersebut telah berjasa selama ribuan tahun untuk memberikan petunjuk bagi Guru2 besar yang akhirnya tercerahkan. Bahkan guru2 besar yang tercerahkan tersebut tidak melakukan suatu tindakan "pembersihan" atas sutta-sutta "palsu." Mereka tetap menghormati dan melestarikan keseluruhan koleksi Tipitaka dalam bentuknya sepertyi sekarang ini. Kenapa demikian? Kalau mau jujur, yang paling bisa membedakan mana sutra asli dan mana sutra palsu adalah Guru yang telah mencapai kearahatan, bukankah demikian? Tapi coba pikir, mengapa Para Guru-guru tersebut sama sekali tidak tertarik melakukan hal demikian?

Demikian juga dalam Mahayana, meski sebagian besar sutranya diragukan keasliannya, namun sutra-sutra itu telah berjasa membantu para Guru2 dalam Mahayana dengan memberikan petunjuk praktik yang membawanya pada pencerahan. Bahkan setelah Para Guru tersebut  mencapai pencerahan, mereka menyarankan agar sutra-sutra tersebut untuk dibaca dan terus diwariskan kepada murid-muridnya. Saya percaya, hal ini dikarenakan bagi Guru2 itu sutra-sutra tersebut, terlepas dari palus atau aslinya, bermanfaat bagi praktik. Mereka tidak menilai sutra-sutra dari nilai originalitasnya belaka, melainkan dari manfaatnya bagi manusia.
   
Mereka yang melihat-Ku dari wujud dan mengikuti-Ku dari suara terlibat dalam upaya salah. Mereka takkan melihat Aku. Dari Dharma-lah mestinya ia melihat Para Buddha. Dari Dharmakaya datang tuntunan baginya. Namun hakikat sejati Dharma tak terlihat dan tiada seorangpun bisa menyadarinya sebagai obyek

Offline Mokau Kaucu

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #13 on: 15 May 2011, 12:37:36 PM »
Oh alangkah bahagianya menjadi pengikut Guru Buddha Gotama, tidak diharuskan  percaya mutlak pada Tipitaka/Tripitaka.yang Otentik, apalagi yang tidak otentik.    ^:)^.

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Re: Authenticity of the Suttas of the Pali Canon
« Reply #14 on: 15 May 2011, 02:35:23 PM »
Umumnya para ahli sejarah teks2 kuno tidak mencari mana yang lebih otentik, melainkan mana teks2 yg penyusunannya lebih dulu dalam urutan kronologis, misalnya Bimala Churn Law dalam Chronology of Pali Canonyg menyimpulkan:

Quote
The results arrived at concerning the chronology of the Pali canonical listerature are preseented in the subjoined table:

    (1) The simple statements of Buddhist doctrines now found, in identical words, in paragraphs or verses recurring in all the books.

    (2) Episodes found, in identical works, in two or more of the existing books.

    (3) The Silas, the Parayana group of sixteen poems without the prologue, the atthaka group of four or sixteen poems, the sikkhapadas.

    (4) The Digha, Vol. l, the Majjhima, the Samyutta, the Anguttara, and earlier Patimokkha code of 152 rules.

    (5) The Digha, Vols. II & III, the Thera-Theri-Gatha, the collection of 500 Jatakas, the Suttavibhanga, the Partisambhidamagga, the Puggala-pannatti and the Vibhanga.

    (6) The Mahavagga and the Cullavagga, the Patimokkha code completing 227 rules, the Vimanavatthu and Petavatthu, the Dhammapada and the Kathavatthu.

    (7) The Cullaniddesa, the Mahaniddesa, the Udana, the Itivuttaka, the Suttanipata, the Dhatukatha, the Yamaka and the Patthana.

    (8) The Buddhavamsa, the Cariyapitaka and the Apadana.

    (9) The Parivarapatha.

    (10) The Khuddakapatha.

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