Bagaimana kita bisa tahu jiwa tidak kekal

[junxiong]

Salam semuanya,

Bagaimana kita bisa mengetahui bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?
bagaimana cara membuktikan bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?

[bond]

Bagaimana kita bisa mengetahui bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?buktikan sendiri

bagaimana cara membuktikan bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?latihlah meditasi vipasanna

[Sunkmanitu Tanka Ob'waci]

Jiwa tidak kekal, tapi citta abadi

[kullatiro]

pertama tama harus tahu apa difinisi jiwa yang anda maksud? soalnya di budhis tidak mengenal kata jiwa atau roh tetapi ada kata bathin tapi kondisi bathin mungkin tidak sama dengan yang anda katakan jiwa? kalau anda maksud ke istilah "jiwa dan raga" maka mungkin lebih condong ke istilah "nama dan rupa" dalam Budhisme.

di Budhis kenal nya nama dan rupa, nama=bathin, rupa = fisik 

[Indra]

Jiwa tidak kekal, tapi citta abadi

mirip ajaran Dhammakaya atau ...?

[hendrako]

Jiwa tidak kekal, tapi citta abadi

Citta abadi maksudnya apa bro? Jelasin dunk.

[adi lim]

arti 'jiwa' seperti kepercayaan tetangga 

[wang ai lie]

Jiwa tidak kekal, tapi citta abadi

  apa itu citta abadi? mohon pencerahannya , thx

[Indra]

  apa itu citta abadi? mohon pencerahannya , thx

sudah pernah dibahas sekilas, silakan http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=11628.msg195520#msg195520

[silemot]

Salam semuanya,

Bagaimana kita bisa mengetahui bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?
bagaimana cara membuktikan bahwa jiwa itu tidak kekal?

tidak kekal = mengalami perubahan

adakah dalam diri kita yg tidak mengalami perubahan? adakah dalam diri kita yang bisa kita kendalikan? seperti biarlah jiwa saya seperti ini (dalam keadaan menyenangkan) biarkan jiwa saya tidak seperti ini (dalam keadaan tidak menyenangkan)

*dikutip dari buku annattalakhana sutta

[wang ai lie]

sudah pernah dibahas sekilas, silakan http://dhammacitta.org/forum/index.php?topic=11628.msg195520#msg195520

thx atas infonya.. menuju TKP 

[junxiong]

kemungkinan saya menggunakan istilah yang salah... seharusnya batin
seperti dalam nama dan rupa~

terima kasih atas koreksiannya 

[Hendra Susanto]

Woww... Citta abadi

[seniya]

Spt yg dikatakan sdr. Silemot, ketidakkekalan jiwa/batin bisa dibaca di Anattalakkhana Sutta....

Utk citta yang abadi saya gak pernah dengar/baca, baru tadi ketika mengunjungi link yg diberikan sdr. Indra. Mungkin ini sudah OOT, tapi dalam Pabhassara Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya disebutkan tentang "pabhassara citta" (luminous mind) yg mungkin menarik dan berhubungan dengan citta yg sejati ini:

AN 1.49-52
PTS: A i 10
(I,v,9-10; I,vi,1-2)
Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1995–2011

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

Note:

1. This statement has engendered a great deal of controversy over the centuries. The commentary maintains that "mind" here refers to the bhavanga-citta, the momentary mental state between periods when the mental stream adverts to objects, but this statement raises more questions than it answers. There is no reference to the bhavanga-citta or the mental stream in any of the suttas (they appear first in an Abhidhamma treatise, the Patthana); and because the commentaries compare the bhavanga-citta to deep sleep, why is it called luminous? And why would the perception of its luminosity be a prerequisite for developing the mind? And further, if "mind" in this discourse means bhavanga-citta, what would it mean to develop the bhavanga-citta?

    Another interpretation equates the luminosity of the mind with the "consciousness without feature," desribed as "luminous" in MN 49 and DN 11, but this interpretation also has problems. According to MN 49, that consciousness partakes of nothing in the describable world, not even the "Allness of the All," so how could it possibly be defiled? And, because it is not realized until the goal of the practice is reached, why would the perception of its luminosity be a prerequisite for developing the mind? And again, if "mind" here means consciousness without feature, how could the sutta talk of its development?

    A more reasonable approach to understanding the statement can be derived from taking it in context: the luminous mind is the mind that the meditator is trying to develop. To perceive its luminosity means understanding that defilements such as greed, aversion, or delusion are not intrinsic to its nature, are not a necessary part of awareness. Without this understanding, it would be impossible to practice. With this understanding, however, one can make an effort to cut away existing defilements, leaving the mind in the stage that MN 24 calls "purity in terms of mind." This would correspond to the luminous level of concentration described in the standard simile for the fourth jhana: "And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness." From this state it is possible to develop the discernment that not only cuts away existing defilements but also uproots any potential for them to ever arise again. Only in the stages of Awakening that follow on those acts of discernment would "consciousness without feature" be realized.

Sumber: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an01/an01.049.than.html

Menurut Dr. Sri Walpoda Rahula dalam Alaya Vijnana, Store Consciousness, pabhassara citta ini berkaitan dengan konsep alaya vijnana/tathagatagarbha dalam Mahayana:

In the Lankavatarasutra the term tathagatagarbha is used as a synonym for alayavijnana and is described as 'luminous by nature' (prakrtiprabhasvara) and 'pure by nature' (prakrtiparisuddha) but appearing as impure 'because it is sullied by adventitious defilements' (agantuklesopaklistataya). In the Anguttaranikaya, citta is described as 'luminous' (pabhassara), but it is 'sullied by adventitious minor defilements' (agantukehi upakkilesehi upakkilittham). One may notice here that alaya-vijnana (or tathagatgarbha) and citta are described almost by the same terms. We have seen earlier that the Sandhi-nirmocana-sutra says that alayavijnana is also called citta. Asanga too mentions that it is named citta.

Sumber: http://www.buddhismtoday.com/english/philosophy/maha/032-Alayavijnana.htm

Mungkin ada konsep yg serupa tetapi tidak sama antara keduanya....

[silemot]

mungkin saya bisa tambahkan sedikit mengenai citta yg abadi.

IMO, citta tidak abadi. citta tidak tetap, tidak berubah, juga tidak dapat dikendalikan. tanpa citta suatu benda tidak dapat dikatakan makluk hidup. jika seseorang yang menganut paham kekekalan(nihilisme) maka jiwa = citta. namun bagi yg menganut paham kekosongan(eternalisme) maka jiwa != citta.

dan menurut jalan tengah, citta !(jiwa = citta) dan !(jiwa !=citta). citta sama seperti udara dalam ruangan kosong. tidak berubah (krn volume udara dlm suatu ruangan tidak berubah jumlahnya), tidak tetap(krn udara yang masuk dan keluar dari lubang fentilasi dsbnya membuat udara tsb berganti terus menerus), tidak dapat dikendalikan(udara yang masuk dan keluar tidak dapat dipresentasikan seberapa banyak udara yang masuk, dan seberapa banyak udara yang keluar) juga.

CMIIW