Namo Buddhaya,
Namo Buddhaya,
Namo Buddhaya,
Namo Buddhaya,
Namo Buddhaya,
Namo Buddhaya,
Saya tidak mendalami ajaran Mahayana, tetapi dalam Theravada jelas tidak ada atman atau atta. jadi menurut saya judul yg diganti oleh mbah kemenyan itu memang tidak tepat. saya mengusulkan judul "Adakah Atman dalam Mahayana?" karena Agama Buddha juga mencakup Theravada sementara Theravada jelas tidak mengajarkan atta.
Karena Diskusi Umum menampung semua aliran maka ia tidak berhak mengambil kesimpulan awal dari salah satu aliran saja, contohnya tentang anatta dalam Theravada yang anda katakan tadi, karena terbukti dalam Theravada pun terbagi dalam 2 golongan, ada yang menerima ajaran bahwa selain 6 kesadaran ada kesadaran lain yang merujuk kepada Higher Self dan ada yang tidak menerima.
Jadi kesimpulan anda tersebut hanya pendapat dari salah satu golongan dalam Theravada.
mohon petunjuk Bro Triyana, ajaran Theravada yg manakah yg mengatakan apa yg anda bold di atas itu? mohon referensi non-wiki, karena theravada memiliki referensi otentik Tipitaka, jadi inilah yg kita jadikan sumber rujukan
Saya kira kita harus terbuka, Wikipedia termasuk sumber yang tidak dilarang diforum ini dan forum-forum lain seantero dunia.
saya akan menerima sumber wiki untuk informasi yg tidak terdapat dalam Tipitaka sejauh berhubungan dengan topik Doktrin Theravada, jadi apakah anda setuju bahwa doktrin adanya atta itu tidak ada dalam Tipitaka sehingga anda perlu mengambil dari sumber lain?
Baik saya tanggapi :
Mari kita buka Kevatta Sutta
Disitu ada bait demikian :
Namo Buddhaya,
"'Your question should not be phrased in this way: Where do these four great elements — the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, and the wind property — cease without remainder? Instead, it should be phrased like this:
Where do water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing?
Where are long & short,
coarse & fine,
fair & foul,
name & form
brought to an end?
"'And the answer to that is:
Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing.
Here long & short
coarse & fine
fair & foul
name & form
are all brought to an end.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
each is here brought to an end.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Kevatta the householder delighted in the Blessed One's words.
Silahkan jelaskan
saya sertakan terjemahan bahasa indonesia versi DCPedia
85. ‘Aku menjawab: “Bhikkhu, suatu ketika para pedagang yang melakukan perjalanan laut, ketika mereka berlayar di lautan, membawa seekor burung yang dapat melihat daratan di kapal mereka. Ketika mereka tidak dapat melihat daratan, mereka akan melepaskan burung itu. Burung itu terbang ke timur, ke selatan, ke barat, ke utara, ia terbang ke atas dan ke arah-arah antara dua arah di kompas. Jika burung itu melihat daratan di arah mana pun, ia akan terbang ke sana. Tetapi jika ia tidak melihat daratan, ia akan kembali ke kapal. Demikianlah, bhikkhu, engkau telah [223] pergi hingga ke alam Brahmā untuk mencari jawaban atas pertanyaanmu dan tidak menemukannya, dan sekarang engkau kembali kepada- Ku. Tetapi, bhikkhu, engkau tidak seharusnya bertanya dengan cara ini: ‘Di manakah empat unsur utama – unsur tanah, unsur air, unsur api, unsur angin – lenyap tanpa sisa?’ melainkan, beginilah seharusnya pertanyaan itu di ajukan:
‘Di manakah tanah, air, api, dan angin tidak menemukan landasannya?
Di manakah yang panjang dan pendek, kecil dan besar, cantik dan buruk rupa –
Di manakah ”batin dan jasmani” dihancurkan seluruhnya?’9
Dan jawabannya adalah:
‘Di mana kesadaran adalah tanpa gambaran,10 tidak terbatas, cerah-cemerlang,11
Di sanalah tanah, air, api, dan angin tidak menemukan landasan,
Di sanalah yang panjang dan pendek, kecil dan besar, cantik dan buruk rupa-
Di sana “batin dan jasmani” dihancurkan seluruhnya.
Dengan lenyapnya kesadaran, semuanya dihancurkan.’”’12
Demikianlah Sang Bhagavā berkata, dan perumah tangga Kevaddha, senang dan gembira mendengar kata-kata Beliau.
karena anda yg membawakan sutta ini, mungkin adalah lebih tepat jika anda yg terlebih dulu menjelaskan bagaimana pemahaman anda atas penggalan sutta itu. silahken ...
Saya meminta anda menafsirkan Sutta Suci Kevatta Sutta menurut anda, bukan copas versi DC.
saya membantu diri saya sendiri dengan copas versi bahasa indonesia. apakah anda keberatan? dan sekali lagi, apa yg ingin anda tunjukkan dari sutta itu? jika anda ingin saya menafsirkan suatu sutta, mungkin anda sebaiknya buka thread baru.
Baik saya tanggapi :
Consciousness without feature ( Viññanam anidassanam )
Mendapat penjelasan demikian :
Viññanam anidassanam.This term is nowhere explained in the Canon, although MN 49 mentions that it "does not partake in the allness of the All" — the "All" meaning the six internal and six external sense media (see SN 35.23). In this it differs from the consciousness factor in dependent co-arising, which is defined in terms of the six sense media. Lying outside of time and space, it would also not come under the consciousness-aggregate, which covers all consciousness near and far; past, present, and future.
Silahkan tanggapi.
bisakah anda menyebutkan sumber kutipan anda? apakah wiki? saya tidak akan mengomentari sesuatu yg tidak jelas siapa penulisnya, dan bagaimana kualifikasi penulisnya
Venerable Thanissaro Bhikkhu
Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu, also known as Ajaan Geoff, (born 1949) is an American Buddhist monk of the Dhammayut Order (Dhammayutika Nikaya), Thai forest kammatthana tradition. He is currently the abbot of Metta Forest Monastery in San Diego County. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu is considered one of the foremost experts in the Pali language and of the Pali Canon. He is also the author of many free Dhamma books.[1]
Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu was born Geoffrey DeGraff in 1949 and was introduced to the Buddha's teaching on the Four Noble Truths as a high schooler, during a plane ride from the Philippines.[1] After graduating in 1971 with a degree in European Intellectual History from Oberlin College, he travelled to Thailand, where he practiced meditation under Ajaan Fuang Jotiko, who'd studied under Ajaan Lee. He ordained in 1976 at Ajaan Lee's Wat Asokaram where Ajaan Lee's nephew, Ajaan Tawng Jandasiri, served as Preceptor for his ordination. Later, he took residence at Wat Dhammasathit in Thailand.[2]
Before Ajaan Fuang's death in 1986, he expressed his wish for Ajaan Geoff to become abbot of the monastery in Thailand. Some time after his teacher's death, he was offered the position of abbot, but with "strings... attached" and no authority since he was a Westerner in a monastery founded by and for Thai monks. Instead of accepting that position, he travelled to San Diego County in 1991, upon request of Ajaan Suwat Suvaco, where he helped him start Metta Forest Monastery.[1] He became abbot of the monastery in 1993.[2] In 1995, Ajaan Geoff became the first American born, non-Thai bhikkhu to be given the title, authority and responsibility of Preceptor (Uppajaya) in the Dhammayut Order. He also served as Secretary General of that Order for all of North America.
Publications
His extensive list of publications includes:[3]
Translations of Ajaan Lee's meditation manuals from the Thai
Handful of Leaves, a five-volume anthology of sutta translations
The Buddhist Monastic Code, a two-volume reference handbook for monks
Wings to Awakening, a collection of some of the Buddha's most essential teachings
The Mind Like Fire Unbound, an examination of Buddhism in terms of contemporary philosophies of fire
The Paradox of Becoming, an extensive analysis on the topic of becoming as a causal factor of stress and suffering
The Karma of Questions, Noble Strategy, and Purity of Heart, collections of essays on Buddhist practice
Meditations (1-4), collections of transcribed Dhamma talks
Dhammapada: A Translation, a collection of verses by the Buddha
(As co-author) the college-level textbook, Buddhist Religions: A Historical Introduction
Besides Buddhist Religions, all of the books mentioned above are for free distribution, many of which can be read or downloaded in digital format online. Also freely available are audio recordings of many of his Dhamma Talks.