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Author Topic: Seperti apakah Jhana itu (Menurut Sutta) ?  (Read 117336 times)

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Offline langitbiru

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #45 on: 27 August 2007, 01:47:33 PM »
Tera Jhanaa... Tera jhanaaa

*ditimpukin org se-DC*
oni... kao titi bobo... gigi...

Offline Lex Chan

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #46 on: 27 August 2007, 09:43:54 PM »
Can you write down your meditation experience word by word, please?

Mungkin bisa ditulis, tapi bakalan panjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang sekali...
Dan tetap tidak dapat menjelaskan pengalaman yang dialami secara tepat..

Dengan kata lain, menurut saya tidak bisa  ^-^

Ngga perlu jelasin jhana deh, karena belum tentu semuanya pernah merasakannya pada kehidupan ini.
Saya juga belum mencapainya kok.. Jadi bagaimana saya bisa menjawab?

Bagaimana kalau diminta menjelaskan rasa pisang? (dengan asumsi semuanya pernah makan pisang.)
Apakah ada yang bisa?

Kalau ada yang bisa, maka...  ^:)^  ^:)^  ^:)^
« Last Edit: 27 August 2007, 09:47:48 PM by Lex Chan »
“Give the world the best you have and you may get hurt. Give the world your best anyway”
-Mother Teresa-

Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #47 on: 11 December 2007, 11:00:04 AM »
Halo teman , salam kenal ya,

Jelas nya apa itu jhana, apa ciri2nya, nimita2nya ada di www.paauk.org        lalu klik "knowing and seeing. Disitu jelas sekali penjelasannya.

Best metta
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #48 on: 11 December 2007, 11:28:07 AM »
Hi salam kenal juga.

Utk Pa auk sayadaw, menggunakan rujukan Visudhimagga dan commentary untuk Visudhimagga yang menekankan pada nimitta.

Bagaimanakan dengan referensi sutta? Pada sutta hanya diberikan jhana dan tidak ada kata nimitta disana.

Saya sendiri lebih suka merujuk pada sutta dibanding visudhimagga kalau memang terdapat perbedaan diantara keduanya. silahkan refer pada postingan2x sebelumnya di thread ini.

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Offline prajna_putra

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #49 on: 11 December 2007, 12:13:00 PM »
jhana ya..wah seru ne....
Sekedar berbagi aja kemaren pernah ikut retret meditasi dgn pembimbing Sayalay Dipankhara
nah pasmeditasi retret itu ada beberapa hal si...
1. Ketika kita fokus pada nafas (anapanasatti metodenya) semakin kita fokus nanti secara perlahan2 bakal muncul cahaya biru,jingga or kuning (cahaya pada umumnya bs warna lainyg muncul), kemudian perlahan2 cahaya tersebut menjadi terang dan brubah menjadi warna putih.Semakin kita fokus pada nafas cahaya itu akan semakin terang disertai dengan kondisi batin kita yang merasa tenang sekali.....damai banget...rasa sakit ditubuh hillang semua....
2. Semakin kita fokus cahaya tadi perlahan2 akan muncul kristal (nimmita) awalnya bentuk kristal ini kecil sekali seperti biji....lama kelamaan ia akan mendekat sampai ke depan ujung hidung kita dan berbentuk kristal...
3. Sampai tahap ini kita tetap fokus pada nafas, kristal/nimmita tadi bakal terus bergerak2 didepan hidung kita
4. Setelah kristal tadi berhenti bergerak maka perlahan 2 kita ganti objek kita dari nafas ke kristal tadi kemudian kita absorbsi nimita tadi selama 1-2 jam.
5. Setelah absorbsi nimita ada 5 faktor jhana yg harus kita koreksi....vitaka, vicara, ......,piti, ekagata
aku rada lupa faktor jhana ang 1 lagi maaf
6. Setelah faktor jhana itu kita koreksi maka kita baru akan memasuki kondisi jhana 1......Setelah itu ketikan mau keluar dari jhana 1 kita kembali koreksi 5 faktor jhana tadi
7. Setelah itu Panna dengan sendirinya akan muncul

Demikian sedikit berbagi....
kalo ada kesalahan mohon senior yg lebih berpengalaman mengoreksi tulisan ini....
 _/\_ :lotus:
 

Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #50 on: 11 December 2007, 12:39:17 PM »
Hallo prajna_putra sepertinya anda dari bali juga ya?kalo iya sama dong... :)

Faktor jhana diamati atau dikoreksi ya? kalau di koreksi caranya gimana?

Jadi jhana 1 itu kondisi faktor jhana+ nimittanya tetap atau ada ciri lain dinimitanya atau apayg dirasakan kondisi jhana yg benar?

To sumedho, visudhi magga itu adalah penjelasan dari sutta2 mengenai meditasi. Jadi keduanya saling melengkapi.Mengenai nimitta juga ada di sutta.

Best metta

Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #51 on: 11 December 2007, 12:49:17 PM »
Quote
To sumedho, visudhi magga itu adalah penjelasan dari sutta2 mengenai meditasi. Jadi keduanya saling melengkapi.Mengenai nimitta juga ada di sutta.
nah ini dia yang ditunggu-tunggu. Boleh minta referensinya ? Thanks
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Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #52 on: 11 December 2007, 01:17:33 PM »
kalo sutta2 saya ngak hafal dimana letaknya, tapi saya pernah membaca,nanti kalo saya ketemu ya...atau bro sumedho tau tentang sutta ttg meditasi,nanti kita sama mengartikan dan membahasnya, kaitanya yg ada divisuddhi magga. dan kebetulan saya ada terjemahan visudhi magga cuma tidak full version. yg full version bahasa inggris ada di perpustakaan dhammacaka jaya, sunter.

Kalau buku referensi keterkaitan keduanya sutta dan visuddhi magga saya belum pernah baca, tetapi para bhikku menggunakan keduanya sebagai acuan yg melengkapi. Kalau tidak salah visudhi magga masuk kedalam salah satu entah di Tipitakanya,atau kitab komentar dan sub komentarnya.


Dan yg saya tau Paauk Sayadaw tentu tau ttg sutta2, visudhi magga, dan kitab2 komentar dan subkomentar lainnya. Nah pada saat retreat di bali yg dibawakan muridnya Sayalay Dipankara, memang ada beberapa mencapai jhana 2.

Kadangkala seperti bentuk nimita2 tidak dirinci dgn jelas atau menggunakan perumpamaan2. dan ada perinciannya di visuddhi magga, dan kadangkala di visuddi magga pun ada hal yg sulit dimengerti,oleh karena itu diperjelas oleh pengalaman2 bhikku2 yg mengalaminya ataupun dalam kitab2 sub komentar. Tapi yg jelas dalam berlatih meditasi diperlukan Kalyanimitta(sahabat yg baik) bisa diartikan bagi pemeditator, guru yg ahli dalam meditasi.

Sabbe satta bhavantu sukhitata.
Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #53 on: 11 December 2007, 01:24:12 PM »
Quote
visudhi magga cuma tidak full version. yg full version bahasa inggris ada di perpustakaan dhammacaka jaya, sunter.
Mbah menyan, ini ada yg punya visudhimagga nih. di perpus dhammacaka juga ada yg full.

Quote
Kalau tidak salah visudhi magga masuk kedalam salah satu entah di Tipitakanya,atau kitab komentar dan sub komentarnya.
Visudhimagga itulah si commentary utk Tipitaka.

utk sutta nanti di posting lagi.
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Offline prajna_putra

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #54 on: 11 December 2007, 03:33:10 PM »
Hallo prajna_putra sepertinya anda dari bali juga ya?kalo iya sama dong... :)

Faktor jhana diamati atau dikoreksi ya? kalau di koreksi caranya gimana?

Jadi jhana 1 itu kondisi faktor jhana+ nimittanya tetap atau ada ciri lain dinimitanya atau apayg dirasakan kondisi jhana yg benar?

To sumedho, visudhi magga itu adalah penjelasan dari sutta2 mengenai meditasi. Jadi keduanya saling melengkapi.Mengenai nimitta juga ada di sutta.

Best metta



bukan...saya dibandung sekarang...
faktor jhana diamati dan dikoreksi....cara koreksinya saya juga kurang tau jelas karena blum mencapai tahap tersebut. untuk lebih jelasnya teman2 bs baca buku knowing n seeing karya pa auk sayaday gurunya sayalay dipankhara....
ketika nimita kita absorpsi (nimita nya perlahan2 lebur masuk ke dalam hidung kita) itulah kita memasuki fase jhana

 _/\_ :lotus:

Offline tesla

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #55 on: 11 December 2007, 03:47:28 PM »
Quote
4. Setelah kristal tadi berhenti bergerak maka perlahan 2 kita ganti objek kita dari nafas ke kristal tadi kemudian kita absorbsi nimita tadi selama 1-2 jam.

absorsi nimitta ini 1~2jam? :o

jadi idealnya sekali meditasi berapa lama ya?
Lepaskan keserakahan akan kesenangan. Lihatlah bahwa melepaskan dunia adalah kedamaian. Tidak ada sesuatu pun yang perlu kau raup, dan tidak ada satu pun yang perlu kau dorong pergi. ~ Buddha ~

Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #56 on: 11 December 2007, 04:23:49 PM »
Ini potongan dari Maha-Saccaka Sutta,

Quote
So when I had taken solid food and regained strength, then — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. But the pleasant feeling that arose in this way did not invade my mind or remain

Komponen Jhana 1
1. Rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal (rasa nikmat & puas karena melepas)
2. Directed Thought & evaluation (pemikiran dan evaluasi/analisa yang terarah)

Kalau dari potongan itu, siapa yang pernah pada Jhana 1 ?






1. point satu. adalah mengenai piti.Ini ada divisudhi magga apa itu piti,yg merupakan faktor jhana(ini dikatakan melengkapi apa yg ada disutta)

2.Point dua adalah koreksi seperti yg dikatakan Prajna_putra
disutta hanya secara singkat saja, dan di visuddhi magga tidak terlalu jelas.

Oleh karena itu dengan pengalaman Ven Paauk Sayadaw, yg juga mempelajari sutta, visuddhi magga dan abhidhamma, maka ia formulasikan dalam tulisan yg jelas dan sistematis, seperti yg saya informasikan penjelasannya Paauk ada di www.paauk org

Salam metta
« Last Edit: 11 December 2007, 04:39:23 PM by bond »
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Offline Sumedho

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #57 on: 11 December 2007, 04:36:42 PM »
ini beberapa potongan sutta yang berhubungan dengan jhana

Quote
AN 4.123
Jhana Sutta / Mental Absorbtion (1)

"There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He savors that, longs for that, finds satisfaction through that. Staying there — fixed on that, dwelling there often, not falling away from that — then when he dies he reappears in conjunction with the devas of Brahma's retinue. The devas of Brahma's retinue, monks, have a life-span of an eon. A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing.
...

Quote
AN 9.45
Ubhatobhaga Sutta
(Released) Both Ways

[Udayin:] "'Released both ways, released both ways,' it is said. To what extent is one described by the Blessed One as released both ways?"

[Ananda:] "There is the case, my friend, where a monk, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He remains touching with his body in whatever way there is an opening there, and he knows it through discernment. It is to this extent that one is described by the Blessed One as released both ways, though with a sequel.

Quote
AN 4.124
Jhana Sutta / Mental Absorbtion (2)

"There is the case where an individual, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. At the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in conjunction with the devas of the Pure Abodes. This rebirth is not in common with run-of-the-mill people.
....

Quote
AN 5.28
Samadhanga Sutta
The Factors of Concentration


The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is five-factored noble right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

"Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. This is the first development of the five-factored noble right concentration.
...

Quote
AN 9.36
Jhana Sutta
Mental Absorption


"I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana... the second jhana... the third... the fourth... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness. I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.

"'I tell you, the ending of the mental fermentations depends on the first jhana.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He regards whatever phenomena there that are connected with form, feeling, perception, fabrications, & consciousness, as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self. He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
....

Quote
AN 9.42
Pañcala Sutta
Pañcala's Verse

"Now there is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality,2 withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Even this much is described by the Blessed One as the attaining of an opening in a confining place, though followed by a sequel. For even there there's a confining place. What is the confining place there? Just that directed thought & evaluation have not ceased. This is the confining place there.
...

Quote
AN 11.10
Sandha Sutta
To Sandha
"He dwells with his awareness overcome by ill will... sloth & drowsiness... restlessness & anxiety... uncertainty, obsessed with uncertainty. He does not discern the escape, as it actually is present, from uncertainty once it has arisen. Making that uncertainty the focal point, he absorbs himself with it, besorbs, resorbs, & supersorbs himself with it.

« Last Edit: 11 December 2007, 04:40:05 PM by Sumedho »
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Offline bond

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #58 on: 11 December 2007, 05:13:27 PM »
Nah itu sutta, kan ngak sistematis, hanya merupakan ini...itu.....
di visuddhi magga maka akan diterangkan secara sistematis, hal2 rasa nikmat dan puas=piti, directed thought anda evaluation, saya koreksi, ini adalah vitaka dan vicara.
(Jhana sutta)

He remains touching with his body in whatever way there is an opening there, and he knows it through discernment. It is to this extent that one is described by the Blessed One as released both ways, though with a sequel.

Ini mengenai pikiran mengetahui jhana=faktor jhana, maka di visudhi magga secara singkat vitaka,vicara,suka,piti dan ekagata.
(ubathobhaga sutta)

Jhana sutta 2 - di visuddhi magga, jenis2 mental pemeditator yg berimplikasi pada nimitta yg dilihat pada jhana, ada yg nimitta pada cahaya, atau cotton wool, atau asap/awan putih

sisanya nanti saya lanjutin ya...kalo ada input silakan ditambahin


Natthi me saranam annam, Buddho me saranam varam, Etena saccavajjena, Sotthi te hotu sabbada

Offline hengki

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Re: Seperti apakah Jhana itu ?
« Reply #59 on: 11 December 2007, 06:36:13 PM »
salut....bravo.... ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^
anak2 baru jago2 nih  :)
saya masih harus banyak belajar nih.
saya juga pernah ikut retreat sayalay dipankara tapi saya belum capai nimitta apalagi jhana  :(
posting terus yah bond sama prajna_putra....saya tunggu loh postingannya.
buat pemicu semangat untuk saya dan rekan2 yang lain

Anumodana.
Hengki
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